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Old 6th February 2018, 05:41 AM   #2791
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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I wasn't commenting on the 250 lbs, but the 10.
Roof loads are divided into 3 main categories: Dead, live and enviro. Sub groups from that. 10 lbs does not compute no matter how well distributed.
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Old 6th February 2018, 06:16 AM   #2792
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Cal,

I had to put in my own trusses to hold up the 800 pound loudspeaker clusters. The roof trusses are really that small. There is extra steel to support specific areas like the scoreboard.

My first hint as to how light the roof was when I went outside during an event. I have never heard so much sound leakage. Outside you could clearly hear the system inside. Only open venues have more bleed.
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Old 6th February 2018, 07:08 AM   #2793
KaffiMann is online now KaffiMann  Norway
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... So there's noone else that have a few pictures?

The roof of my snow cave is relatively flat though, and can at the very least support a couple of children. Now the snow has set enough I might try and crawl over it (112kg), But I'll try and spread myself out over ca 2 square meters and just flop gently about in the process.
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Old 6th February 2018, 01:05 PM   #2794
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Cal,

Back when doing a baseball park, I and the audio consultant had walked out via the sunscreen beams to a speaker cluster. The two guys from the electrical contractor stood at the top of the ladder. The rather un-liked assistant projects manager walked straight from the ladder to the cluster over the thin fiberglass panel that provided the shade. All four of us thought the fat guy was going to fall to his death. Surprisingly the panels held his weight. No idea what the load rating was per square foot. I have seen floors rated 25 pounds per square foot.

When they designed the first suspension bridges they worried about full load capacity. They learned you don't have to design them as if they were completely covered by fully loaded trucks. About 30% of that seems to have worked. Trucks today are much heavier.

Yes I was amazed at how little load the roof in a subtropical area was designed to carry.
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Old 7th February 2018, 01:50 AM   #2795
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
...."roofies" are built to spec ca 120cm of dry snow/80kg per square metre.
16 pounds per square foot? That's not even enough in New Jersey.

Must be some other factor in there giving a huge margin of safety.

The line for 50 lb/sf is south of me. Building codes in this corner of the state are not real specific. I rough-design for 70-100 lb/sf. And I do NOT clear snow from roofs I have built--- that is stupidly dangerous. (I re-roofed the chicken shed and may have cheaped-out at 65 lb/sf; but there are no chickens; also I used plastic panels and in fact the snow slides-off almost the same day it falls.)

I am also guided by the year that Eastport, an hour north of here, got over 120 inches (10 feet, 3m) in one winter, most of that in a few weeks. With drifts it was over porch roofs.

We have few roof snow failures here on "active" buildings. Carpenters here know snow. I hear of snow-failures from points *south*, where snow is small so not defended-against. (Old neglected barns fall in when rot and snow get together; I'm watching two on the bay side road.)

If you do a full Code snow load calc, sometimes the max stress is "tributary". Main roof above a porch roof. Main roof sheds all its snow WHOOMP! onto the porch roof. In NJ where 18" snow is deep, I had to compute my porch for a triangle 48" high at the wall. (Which it would not stand, yet it had stood for 120+ years...)

FWIW: at this moment I have an inch of snow on the main roof. We've had two clumps of about a foot each, with tropic rains between, so the only real snow is plow-banks.

I'm also stunned that you clear chimneys. Here chimneys are built well above the roof. I now have a through-the-wall gas burner, plastic smoke pipe, the manual says 12" above maximum snow, and for $1/foot I just ran the pipes over my head. (Literal 12" would hit my head when mowing...)

simon7000> The arena in Washington DC has a roof loading rated at 10 pounds per square foot. In Buffalo NY it is rated at 250 pounds per square foot. Both are flat roofs.
simon7000> ...amazed at how little load the roof in a subtropical area was designed to carry.

Yes, I can believe Buffalo needs to plan for 250. And if there is no ponding, a no-snow roof only needs to cover its own weight and the rare worker, super-flimsy until you do wind calcs.

Last edited by PRR; 7th February 2018 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 02:00 AM   #2796
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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Something akin to his has been posted before -- a Chevy 454 cube engine repurposed for snow-blower duty: YouTube

My snowblower is 2HP and does very nicely.
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Old 7th February 2018, 02:04 AM   #2797
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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In DC they don't call it wind, it is "Political Discussions."

Roof loading is a big deal in arenas as traveling shows often want to rig rather substantial weights. The best news is LED lighting. What used to weight 100 pounds and draw a kilowatt is now 30 pounds and draws 50 watts. Nicer for adjusting them is if you accidentally brush against some parts you don't burn your skin. LEDs may get hot but nothing like an incandescent lamp.

Lighting rigs that used to require 200 amps three phase are now happy with two 20 amp wall outlets.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:16 PM   #2798
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubelab_com View Post
...I have a cheap single stage snow blower...
George - there is something less than your one-stage snow blower.

I just got what I call a "3/4-stage" snow toy. It is an attachment for a string trimmer power head.
Ryobi snow-head, $99
Instead of rubber flaps slapping the ground it is a hard plastic rotor with an edge under it. There is no chute- it just throws snow forward. So more like a hard power-broom. The ad suggests it is 15" wide, but the rotor is only 10" wide. The way it works, it must choke-up in >6" of snow, though the booklet suggests "multiple passes".

There is a deeper fallacy. Snow is COLD. Gas trimmer heads are tuned for warmer weather. While I just started a new lawnmower at 15F, it was not easy. Another option is electric trimmer heads.
Ryobi 40V trim head, $169
But the Lithium batteries hate the cold. I got the electric system off the truck at 25F, and the battery charger would not start until the battery had warmed in the house for an hour. The booklet says I can *use* the charged batt down to -4F if I start slow to warm it. However the comments from trimmer users suggest the batt won't do a lot of trimming per charge; also that Ryobi's batteries are crap.

I'm having a hard time seeing how this $168 system beats a $16 shovel. You don't lift the snow, but the system is quite heavy and awkward.

Oh: they were thinking of you. They tell you not to use their product in bare feet.

Mechanically: it is a flex-drive like many string trimmers. The flex bends 90 degrees into the housing. There it spins a 1.5" sprocket, cog-belt with tensioner, 4" sprocket engages rotor. So with a hi-speed head, it may really spin fairly fast, and potentially give good throw, except it can't pack-up the snow dense like a 2-stage should, and the thrown powder will drop.

I'm more impressed by the trimmer head. And if you get fully invested in Ryobi 40V trimmer, edger, pole-saw, and lawnmower, the sno-blo is an obvious frill for places with hardly any snow and too many hooks in the shed.

Snow just now started here and the first 4 inches may be something this toy can push along. But then we expect wet/hard slop.
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Old 8th February 2018, 01:09 AM   #2799
Tubelab_com is offline Tubelab_com  United States
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Quote:
Oh: they were thinking of you. They tell you not to use their product in bare feet.
I have mowed the lawn in bare feet ever since I was about 12 years old. Weed eater too, but I use a "toy" 120 volt plug in job. It will result in loss of vocabulary control and maybe a small cut if you let it get your feet or bare legs. The heavier gas powered weed eaters cause me too much back pain due to bad disks in my spine. I will run the snow blower in flip flops and a T-shirt if the snow is dry and there is a wind behind me. The wet sloshy stuff results in cold feet even for me.

Quote:
Snow just now started here and the first 4 inches may be something this toy can push along. But then we expect wet/hard slop.
We got lucky today. School was cancelled by noon yesterday. The TV and everybody else was predicting a snow / ice / frozen rain mess with numbers from 3 to 7 inches.

It rained all night last night and there was a thin layer of ice covering the driveway early but it kept raining well into the day when most of that ice melted. We got a grand total of 1/2 inch of snow when it was gone about 3 this afternoon. The standing water in the yard is however frozen now, and may remain that way for a day or two.

It's headed your way now.
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Old 8th February 2018, 02:18 AM   #2800
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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George -- same stuff here in North Jersey -- school cancelled and an inch of snow over 1/4" of ice.

Had a doc appointment in NYC -- there was virtually no traffic on the roads but several cars which had been flung off the roadway on I-78 westbound.
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