Hi everyone.
Has anyone compared Kendeil K05 with Mundorf M-Lytic AG?
I've been looking to replace two 10.000uf 50v caps with either of these, but can't decide nor find any opinion regarding this.
I can't find any Siemens Sikorel around, and I think they can't fit my amp.
Also, I will be using 63v instead of the 50v, but can I place 15.000uf caps? Will I benefit anything from doing this?
Thank you all!
Has anyone compared Kendeil K05 with Mundorf M-Lytic AG?
I've been looking to replace two 10.000uf 50v caps with either of these, but can't decide nor find any opinion regarding this.
I can't find any Siemens Sikorel around, and I think they can't fit my amp.
Also, I will be using 63v instead of the 50v, but can I place 15.000uf caps? Will I benefit anything from doing this?
Thank you all!
I have used the Kendeils and Mundorfs in a few projects, notably rectifier smoother boards for pre-amps. There's less difference between the sound of either of them than there is between a Murata and a Q-speed diode IME.
More of less capactiance, who knows what difference you will get, I'd suggest the trade off would be between smaller lower ESR caps and higher value higher ESR ones. All things being equal I'd Paralell 3 x 10,000uf rather than use 2x 15,000uf
More of less capactiance, who knows what difference you will get, I'd suggest the trade off would be between smaller lower ESR caps and higher value higher ESR ones. All things being equal I'd Paralell 3 x 10,000uf rather than use 2x 15,000uf
Also look at these
BHC - AudioCap Limited
Serious audiocaps, especially the T networks although more expensive.
Rifa peh169 probably the best but some restrictions.
BHC - AudioCap Limited
Serious audiocaps, especially the T networks although more expensive.
Rifa peh169 probably the best but some restrictions.
Thank you everyone for your answers.
I don't think I can fit 3x10.000uF... I know 2 fit, but 3 should be too much.
Regarding BHC, I have read a few bad reviews. AFAIK, the best ones were the ALC20, these were great, but are not available anymore. Those T-Network are too expensive. I am looking at Kendeils costing 1/5th of that, and should be good enough. At least they are for Naim...
I don't think I can fit 3x10.000uF... I know 2 fit, but 3 should be too much.
Regarding BHC, I have read a few bad reviews. AFAIK, the best ones were the ALC20, these were great, but are not available anymore. Those T-Network are too expensive. I am looking at Kendeils costing 1/5th of that, and should be good enough. At least they are for Naim...
This capacitor needs to be mounted upright or in a horizontal position but with an incline. It has a breathing vent so you cannout mount it like other caps with the leads into a pcb, the leads, in this case the screws need to be turned upwards or the pcb should be mounted on top of the caps.
I think youll find those giving those reviews are just biased, I find 20 good reviews to 1 bad review. In the good reviews concerning BHC they are rated even or better than Kendeils, the specs show this as well. I have several amps using these some are 20 years old, cap leakage tests show they are still within 15 percent of their new state, Ive never encountered a cap behaving this well. This feat is said to be found with the rifas as well.
HI!
I am looking for 6800uf - 35volt caps to upgrade a creek amp. So far I only found some
NKG-080 - 6800uF 35V Nichicon KG Type, Gold Tune, snap-in
[NKG-080].
I know they are not bad, But I'd prefer Kendeil or BHC... or Mundorfs, of course, but I didn't find the right values.
If I will not find what I want I guess I'll buy the KG Elnas that are not bad at all and
"By-pass it with some nice small poly and that´s it".
My question is : what values can I use to by pass psu caps with 6800uf and 35 volts?
Better, can someone give me some specific examples of a few caps to use in this aplication? PLEASE!!!
In this Creek integrated, the old 4040 that I allways liked a lot, the circuit board is populated with some litle blue caps - 10uf, 1uf, 22 uf... all with 50volts. They have just a decent quality I guess - they're rubycons.
I decided to replace them by Cerafines. Do you experienced diyers agree with this choice?
Thanks again for your help and advise.
I am looking for 6800uf - 35volt caps to upgrade a creek amp. So far I only found some
NKG-080 - 6800uF 35V Nichicon KG Type, Gold Tune, snap-in
[NKG-080].
I know they are not bad, But I'd prefer Kendeil or BHC... or Mundorfs, of course, but I didn't find the right values.
If I will not find what I want I guess I'll buy the KG Elnas that are not bad at all and
"By-pass it with some nice small poly and that´s it".
My question is : what values can I use to by pass psu caps with 6800uf and 35 volts?
Better, can someone give me some specific examples of a few caps to use in this aplication? PLEASE!!!
In this Creek integrated, the old 4040 that I allways liked a lot, the circuit board is populated with some litle blue caps - 10uf, 1uf, 22 uf... all with 50volts. They have just a decent quality I guess - they're rubycons.
I decided to replace them by Cerafines. Do you experienced diyers agree with this choice?
Thanks again for your help and advise.
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If you are upgrading an existing piece of equipment spending lots of money on boutique parts like Mundorf caps isn't going to get you anywhere sound wise. Replace any broken parts with those of similar specifications for repair or restoration, buying expensive parts and slapping them in isn't an upgrade. Unless you change the design in some major way parts selection is not likely to change the sound at all. Save your money.
Ok, but when I replaced the decon caps for the Elna silmic11 and fine gold caps, the sound improved a lot. These caps are more expensive than the decon but cost one dolar or a litle bit more, I wouldn't call boutique caps. The quality parts should change the sound, right? There are good and bad cables, etc.
But I agree that many times expensive parts are not better than cheap parts. It is not a question of being cheaper or more expensive, just better or worst don't you agree? Many times better is more expensive too.
In my amp, (an LM 3886 chip amp), I puted some black gates in the psu, instead of others and the sound improved drastically. More finesse, detail, the sound is more rich, harmonics are better.
It's not because the black gates are more expensive, it's because they are better.
Another example : In my paradisea+ dac I replaced the output caps by Hovlands, they are expensive, but Gold Munforfs or Jupiter are much more expensive. Anyway, Hovlands are much more expensive than the original caps of the dac. (I think the original are not expensive because this dac is not expensive) Well, the sound changed from black to white, for the better, for me and for my wife and some friends. Even the cats said wow!! Do you agree with me? I am not sure if I got your point.
I'd like to know what do you think about this. Note : I can allways be wrong, at least in some aspects.
(I also have to change the caps from the creek because it is very very old... but if I can improve the sound I will do it)
But I agree that many times expensive parts are not better than cheap parts. It is not a question of being cheaper or more expensive, just better or worst don't you agree? Many times better is more expensive too.
In my amp, (an LM 3886 chip amp), I puted some black gates in the psu, instead of others and the sound improved drastically. More finesse, detail, the sound is more rich, harmonics are better.
It's not because the black gates are more expensive, it's because they are better.
Another example : In my paradisea+ dac I replaced the output caps by Hovlands, they are expensive, but Gold Munforfs or Jupiter are much more expensive. Anyway, Hovlands are much more expensive than the original caps of the dac. (I think the original are not expensive because this dac is not expensive) Well, the sound changed from black to white, for the better, for me and for my wife and some friends. Even the cats said wow!! Do you agree with me? I am not sure if I got your point.
I'd like to know what do you think about this. Note : I can allways be wrong, at least in some aspects.
(I also have to change the caps from the creek because it is very very old... but if I can improve the sound I will do it)
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Perhaps in your subjective opinion the sound has changed, but I'm sure if you took some measurements there wouldn't be any difference if the old parts were within specification. Of course there will be a difference in sound if the parts have different specifications, whether or not it is better who can say. If you are one of those parts-swapper types who buys cheap stuff then fills it with expensive parts and claims a difference have at it. Lots of people make a hobby out of doing that alone. If the designer or company selling it thought the design to be good enough to warrant the cost of super-duper parts, and there was such a huge difference, why didn't they just put them in there? They would get a huge discount buying so many. That is my logic.
Sometimes manufacturers skimp on quality to save costs, without a doubt. Upgrading these parts to reasonable equivalents might yield some improvement. There may be a difference between a ten cent part and a one dollar part, but probably not much difference between the one dollar part and a one-hundred dollar part. The expectation bias of seeing expensive parts in your unit and "hearing" a difference can be huge. I have recapped entire units many times as preventative maintenance and have only been able to tell a difference if there were worn out parts replaced. Of course this will cause a change since the unit has been repaired. I have two identical CD players, X33ES, one with new caps (Nichicon FG audio caps) and expensive op-amps and one with factory Elnas/generic Nippon Chemicons and fifty-cent 5532 op-amps. I cannot tell even the slightest difference in a blind test. Go figure.
Parts also make a difference when selected well for the application and depending on their location. When in the signal path, capacitors have a large impact on sound. Speaker crossover capacitors and output filter capacitors should be metalized poly. Can you hear a difference between a cheap Bennic poly cap and a Jupiter? Good luck. I for one used all Solen parts in my speakers, a good improvement since the factory electrolytic caps were dried out. They have different electrical characteristics too (ESR, namely, much lower) so of course the highs will sound "more dynamic" "more open" etc. but there is a reason.
Sometimes manufacturers skimp on quality to save costs, without a doubt. Upgrading these parts to reasonable equivalents might yield some improvement. There may be a difference between a ten cent part and a one dollar part, but probably not much difference between the one dollar part and a one-hundred dollar part. The expectation bias of seeing expensive parts in your unit and "hearing" a difference can be huge. I have recapped entire units many times as preventative maintenance and have only been able to tell a difference if there were worn out parts replaced. Of course this will cause a change since the unit has been repaired. I have two identical CD players, X33ES, one with new caps (Nichicon FG audio caps) and expensive op-amps and one with factory Elnas/generic Nippon Chemicons and fifty-cent 5532 op-amps. I cannot tell even the slightest difference in a blind test. Go figure.
Parts also make a difference when selected well for the application and depending on their location. When in the signal path, capacitors have a large impact on sound. Speaker crossover capacitors and output filter capacitors should be metalized poly. Can you hear a difference between a cheap Bennic poly cap and a Jupiter? Good luck. I for one used all Solen parts in my speakers, a good improvement since the factory electrolytic caps were dried out. They have different electrical characteristics too (ESR, namely, much lower) so of course the highs will sound "more dynamic" "more open" etc. but there is a reason.
Well, this thread is leading us to the big subject of hi fi : where are the limits between consensual scientific knowledge and empirical knowledge? They have to exist together, that's how science progresses. That's also how hifi keeps going on. Implementation, experimentation, etc. It means that we can't measure everything. Tomorrow we'll be able to measure and understand things that are obscure today. Today we can make things that will work better than others, even if we don't know why. Many times we know that something sounds better but we can't fully explain. Hi fi has a lot of this kind of "avangard" situations among lots of "********", I must recognize. Hifi lives in this area and many manufacturers make a profit out of it.
I know someone who makes very nice amps, speakers, dacs, etc. He's someone very respected. He spends his time hearing amps, wires, caps, etc. He says that an electronic part vibrates and I can imagine that inside the part, different things vibrate in a different way. How to have total control this at this level and the interaction between parts, values, etc? Impossible. We have SOME control.
Can you explain everything about electrons inside a tube or even in a wire? No, it is very obscure. We know a lot, (not me), but it is only a very small part of the big picture. You know better than me that if we make the "perfect" amp it will sound like crap.
With all the respect I still believe that different parts with the same values sound different. They are different, different things happen. Can I prove it? May be, with some experimentation, but then there is the human, so some people will agree with me and some will not, that's all.
I may hear things, sometimes, because I believe in those things, they are in my mind and I'm convinced that I am hearing it, but I am not. I accept that. But some people never hear that difference because they don't believe in that. That's the same phenomena, but in the opositive way... It may happens. Both things happen.
But choosing parts or amps or dacs for the price or label is stupid, I agree. I had lots of cables and all of them are different, some sound almost the same, but some of the best are really cheap, some are expensive. But those very expensive are not better. May be sometimes a litle bit better, costing one hundred times more. That's why I began my hobby as diyer and pay less atention to labels.
Who knows? May be tomorrow I change my mind!
Meanwhile I am trying to make a few upgrades and I make a lot of mistakes. That's the cost of my learning, it makes part of the hobby.
Your commentaries were very interesting for me.
Well, I also believe that a very good simple (simplified) circuitry should work very well with average parts and a bad circuitry will never "sound" well with the best parts, may be it will sound worst.
I know someone who makes very nice amps, speakers, dacs, etc. He's someone very respected. He spends his time hearing amps, wires, caps, etc. He says that an electronic part vibrates and I can imagine that inside the part, different things vibrate in a different way. How to have total control this at this level and the interaction between parts, values, etc? Impossible. We have SOME control.
Can you explain everything about electrons inside a tube or even in a wire? No, it is very obscure. We know a lot, (not me), but it is only a very small part of the big picture. You know better than me that if we make the "perfect" amp it will sound like crap.
With all the respect I still believe that different parts with the same values sound different. They are different, different things happen. Can I prove it? May be, with some experimentation, but then there is the human, so some people will agree with me and some will not, that's all.
I may hear things, sometimes, because I believe in those things, they are in my mind and I'm convinced that I am hearing it, but I am not. I accept that. But some people never hear that difference because they don't believe in that. That's the same phenomena, but in the opositive way... It may happens. Both things happen.
But choosing parts or amps or dacs for the price or label is stupid, I agree. I had lots of cables and all of them are different, some sound almost the same, but some of the best are really cheap, some are expensive. But those very expensive are not better. May be sometimes a litle bit better, costing one hundred times more. That's why I began my hobby as diyer and pay less atention to labels.
Who knows? May be tomorrow I change my mind!
Meanwhile I am trying to make a few upgrades and I make a lot of mistakes. That's the cost of my learning, it makes part of the hobby.
Your commentaries were very interesting for me.
Well, I also believe that a very good simple (simplified) circuitry should work very well with average parts and a bad circuitry will never "sound" well with the best parts, may be it will sound worst.
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That is all I try to caution against. I understand different parts will sound different, many just seem to believe that the price or brand is the reason why. You know this is not the case, of course. I will also recommend strongly these gold tune capacitors (KG series) since Nichicon is a very reliable capacitor; I always use them myself. Jensen is also a very nice reliable electrolytic manufacturer but expensive. I cannot tell between new $60 Jensen and old $15 KG in my friends Yamaha amplifier, but he swears there is a difference.
Yeah but that is no solid guarantee that the caps will last another 25 if you bought new ones today. But time will tell this.
Getting the long life 12,000 hour @ 85c caps is better than taking a chance on 1000 hour 85c ones.
I also like longevity in electronics, its less wasteful.
I can swear by Elna Cerafines but they are very very rare and difficult to get.
Hi freax, why say cerafines are not easy to find?
Check this :
Elna Cerafines ROA Electrolytics - Hifi Collective
Nichicon Electrolytic Capacitors - Hifi Collective
Well, they do not have high values, but I don't know if they make it.
Check this :
Elna Cerafines ROA Electrolytics - Hifi Collective
Nichicon Electrolytic Capacitors - Hifi Collective
Well, they do not have high values, but I don't know if they make it.
Thank you very much!
Yes I agree I could use the 4700uF 35v value more but I'm willing to get anything Cerafine.
I think this value will be useful enough for me:
(ELNAC-180) - 1000uF 35V Elna Cerafine Electrolytic Capacitor Hifi Collective
I've got Silmic II's in my tube amplifier and while the amp does have a very clear and transparent sound I still for some reason prefer the Cerafines, the Silmic's are a tad too bright for me. I have stopped at pulling the Silmic's out however, i'm going to be using these Cerafines in a DAC and see how they go when feeding the tube amp.
It should provide a very nice balance.
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