Frank,
I'd like to suggest that you have, most unfortunately, NOT heard the real deal in active monitoring.
If you'd run into an ACT or two, you'd never say what you did because there would be no cause for crticism. Although, VERY expensive, no doubt.
If you had run into some Klein & Hummel products, I think you'd like them. Clear and clean like well water, yet sound-wise at least 100 proof.
And Bob Stuart's Meridian active speakers certainly merit mention, excellent fare, just as we have come to expect of Bob Stuart. He seems incapable of failing anything.
And, as Vacuphile says, they do blow away the vast majority of classic systems.
I'd like to suggest that you have, most unfortunately, NOT heard the real deal in active monitoring.
If you'd run into an ACT or two, you'd never say what you did because there would be no cause for crticism. Although, VERY expensive, no doubt.
If you had run into some Klein & Hummel products, I think you'd like them. Clear and clean like well water, yet sound-wise at least 100 proof.
And Bob Stuart's Meridian active speakers certainly merit mention, excellent fare, just as we have come to expect of Bob Stuart. He seems incapable of failing anything.
And, as Vacuphile says, they do blow away the vast majority of classic systems.
Not in my hi-fi world..
I have heard no active speaker pro or domestic to run circles around anything ..
Not in my hi-fi world..
I have heard no active speaker pro or domestic to run circles around anything ..
And of course, your audio world is representative ...
Wayne, your audio world is where the Devil fears to tread.
When I was in mainstream audio the customers felt active was too big a risk . Passive allowed a change of mind or upgrade .
I would welcome the active option for the Mid and Top . This could be where the crossover is external and detachable .
I have to say most active speakers are not the giant leap in performance I would have expected . I suppose that often the drive units were made with passive in mind .
Quad ESL and Magnaplanar sort of qualify as active .
I would welcome the active option for the Mid and Top . This could be where the crossover is external and detachable .
I have to say most active speakers are not the giant leap in performance I would have expected . I suppose that often the drive units were made with passive in mind .
Quad ESL and Magnaplanar sort of qualify as active .
D,
Please name the best active, i will make the effort to locate and listen .....
Meridian ...... Soooft
Genilec ....... Sooooft
Linn ..... Sooooft
Lyngdorf...... I have not heard yet , but will in a few weeks
I have no experience at all with Genelec, so I cannot compare, much less comment. Ditto for Linn, I plain despise that company and make sure I never get in touch with them. Silly, I know, but there it is.
My taste is quite clear - ACT would be my second choice, Klein & Hummel my first.
Of the two, ACT went for as linear as possible, K & H went for personalization. In mid position of all pots, you get real linear response, but their ranges are -6...0...+6 dB, so there's lots of room for persnal adjustment. I happen to like the choice, even if my personal settings are never off by +/- 2 dB from center.
Please note that my comments on K&H are valid for their studio class monitors from 1991 or 1992, those are the ones I used when editing my TV show in 1996, 1997 and 1998. I made no effort to keep up with them, I have no idea what they are making today.
I also disgree with your comment on Merdian - I do not find them to be soft, with 3 "o", presumably better than the others with 4 "o". I would say they are a little too polite for my taste, but would add that this was a typical personal taste comment.
From your comments, I surmise you like 'em loud, brash and shrill.
Not to even walk the deadly killing field of impedance.
Yes, I'm certain that they are there, but will be, expensive!! The best videos from Kenrick Sound, on YouTube, demonstrate many key, positive attributes of this level of gear ...
These also were a disappointment, but will acknowledge they were previous generation units that I heard. Suitable for HT work only, in the demo I heard ...
Frank
Meridian was a disappointment?
I rather liked them, although they tended to be too polite, I would have liked a little more attack.
How or in what way did they disappoint you, Frank, I'd really like to know?
I am also speaking of older generations, haven't heard any of their stuff must be over 10 years now. Because of their prices, they are really rare.
I rather liked them, although they tended to be too polite, I would have liked a little more attack.
How or in what way did they disappoint you, Frank, I'd really like to know?
I am also speaking of older generations, haven't heard any of their stuff must be over 10 years now. Because of their prices, they are really rare.
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I had been trying to hear the later DSP models, and it's been a while ago, I thought it was the D6000, but the image doesn't quite jell. But the model was at that level ...
It was driven by the top of the line Meridian source component, at the probably the best audio dealer in Sydney. I was expecting a good performance, I had been reading about the Meridian philosopy for years in HiFi News, but they came across generally as just another hifi speaker, lacking clarity and finesse, and getting shouty with any sort of reasonable volume. There's always the possibility that there was something significantly wrong with the setup, but first impressions are hard to go past, and I didn't really hear anything there to motivate me to want to listen more attentively.
In that time period probably the best demo performance I had come across was the MBL 101Es, driven by their top electronics; this inspired me to get back into the audio game. Obviously the Meridians weren't going to do that, but the gap was still too far ...
Frank
It was driven by the top of the line Meridian source component, at the probably the best audio dealer in Sydney. I was expecting a good performance, I had been reading about the Meridian philosopy for years in HiFi News, but they came across generally as just another hifi speaker, lacking clarity and finesse, and getting shouty with any sort of reasonable volume. There's always the possibility that there was something significantly wrong with the setup, but first impressions are hard to go past, and I didn't really hear anything there to motivate me to want to listen more attentively.
In that time period probably the best demo performance I had come across was the MBL 101Es, driven by their top electronics; this inspired me to get back into the audio game. Obviously the Meridians weren't going to do that, but the gap was still too far ...
Frank
I been working with a friend on building an active set up using his old Leek 12 inch base units in the original boxes . Recently we have used a Fostex full range unit as mid and top (small open enclosure ) . The bass is driven by a massive transistor amp and the mid-top by a SE valve amp ( ECC 83 Brimar , 12BH7A ( GEC-SRPP ) , KT88 in SE UL , Black treasures or whatever ) . It has taken more than a year to get it to gel . Visions of the rockets failing at NASA come to mind . Now it works . The active crossover is a hot rodded car stereo unit ( new op amps and PSU ) . That should have been the first to go . It works so well it is now trusted . Sources of sound are impeccable . The DAC is a Flying Calf which has been hot rodded also , it has beaten off most things . I will be looking at making a DAC soon . I would say getting active to work is not easy .
As the crossover is a car unit the power to all things low voltage is by lead acid cells with 10 uF polyester bypasses .
The strangest effect is no bass and no depth when time alignment is wrong , harshness also . FFT has been used and graphs kept . Graphs of differences are very subtle . The room by accident of good luck is very good .
The Meridian speakers always seemed to sound a bit overly tight . The BBC LS3/5A and Celestion SL6 were to my ears better ( passive ) . SL6 would seem to me an ideal active experiment . The 22 kHz notch could be active . I think some Meridian speakers used negative output impedance ? Bob did mention it in passing ( to Donald Aldous if memory is correct when I was ear-wigging ) . The rep ( Steve ) asked Mr A what he thought . Mr A said " I think you might be using a pair of unmatched speakers " . It was true , one M2 and one M3 . Mr A was 90 + !
I will be making a rare visit to the Bristol, hi fi show on Saturday . If any hot topics come up I will write it up .
As the crossover is a car unit the power to all things low voltage is by lead acid cells with 10 uF polyester bypasses .
The strangest effect is no bass and no depth when time alignment is wrong , harshness also . FFT has been used and graphs kept . Graphs of differences are very subtle . The room by accident of good luck is very good .
The Meridian speakers always seemed to sound a bit overly tight . The BBC LS3/5A and Celestion SL6 were to my ears better ( passive ) . SL6 would seem to me an ideal active experiment . The 22 kHz notch could be active . I think some Meridian speakers used negative output impedance ? Bob did mention it in passing ( to Donald Aldous if memory is correct when I was ear-wigging ) . The rep ( Steve ) asked Mr A what he thought . Mr A said " I think you might be using a pair of unmatched speakers " . It was true , one M2 and one M3 . Mr A was 90 + !
I will be making a rare visit to the Bristol, hi fi show on Saturday . If any hot topics come up I will write it up .
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@FAS42
That's odd, Frank, I mean it. I am not saying the Meridian is the best all around, as I said, they're a bit too polite, lacking some speed, but overall very nicely balanced with no obvious vices.
Either you were led to expect more than was realistic, or something was not quite right with the setup. Perhaps a bit of both, I don't know.
That's odd, Frank, I mean it. I am not saying the Meridian is the best all around, as I said, they're a bit too polite, lacking some speed, but overall very nicely balanced with no obvious vices.
Either you were led to expect more than was realistic, or something was not quite right with the setup. Perhaps a bit of both, I don't know.
Well, I really would like to hear the latest DSP models to give the brand "another chance", but haven't managed to get there yet. One day ...
@a.wayne: there's nothing wrong with horns, apart from being sensitive, meaning that inadequacies further back in the chain and other weaknesses will be ruthlessly exposed. Which is ultimately a good thing, because if one gets off one's backside and tries to figure out what's causing the problem, then one will only gain in the end. Over the years my system at times would have sounded to a casual listener like a typical, "unpleasant" horn setup, because I run the sound loud. The terms "brash and shrill" really mean audible distortion generated elsewhere in the audio chain, which is the real enemy ...
Which reminds of a fun time I had in a big department style store some time ago. They had Klipsch F2s, hooked up to a standard Japanese receiver: very good sensitivity, very benign impedance; I put on a recently recorded high energy blues track, and wound up the volume. The power supply in the receiver was up to it, and the sound held together nicely and projected way, way out into the store. The store guy came running fast, "Turn it down, turn it down!!" ...
Those active studio monitors I listened to were a relative joke in comparison ...
Frank
@a.wayne: there's nothing wrong with horns, apart from being sensitive, meaning that inadequacies further back in the chain and other weaknesses will be ruthlessly exposed. Which is ultimately a good thing, because if one gets off one's backside and tries to figure out what's causing the problem, then one will only gain in the end. Over the years my system at times would have sounded to a casual listener like a typical, "unpleasant" horn setup, because I run the sound loud. The terms "brash and shrill" really mean audible distortion generated elsewhere in the audio chain, which is the real enemy ...
Which reminds of a fun time I had in a big department style store some time ago. They had Klipsch F2s, hooked up to a standard Japanese receiver: very good sensitivity, very benign impedance; I put on a recently recorded high energy blues track, and wound up the volume. The power supply in the receiver was up to it, and the sound held together nicely and projected way, way out into the store. The store guy came running fast, "Turn it down, turn it down!!" ...
Those active studio monitors I listened to were a relative joke in comparison ...
Frank
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Sorry Frank ,
Some Horns can really sound brash and shrill , but mostly i have a issue with their coloration and shouty character ..
Of course if you happen to be listening at 20M , good choice ....
Some Horns can really sound brash and shrill , but mostly i have a issue with their coloration and shouty character ..
Of course if you happen to be listening at 20M , good choice ....
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Shoutiness is an attribute I find associated with systems, rather than speakers. My experience is that achieving good sound is like balancing on a sharp, pointy mountain top, rather than a pleasant wandering around on a grassy, round topped hill; if I'm getting top sound then it only takes a slight tipping in one direction, some minor problem and the quality degenerates dramatically into a shouty, unpleasant mess ...Some Horns can really sound brash and shrill , but mostly i have a issue with their coloration and shouty character ..
Of course if you happen to be listening at 20M , good choice ....
Part of the reasons for this is that I'm using relatively low cost machinery, and I play many recordings that most people wouldn't bother with ...
Frank
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