Another list
HigherFi-Ultimate - The Worlds Best and Most Expensive Audio Amp and Amplifiers
Any of these worth a mention ?
HigherFi-Ultimate - The Worlds Best and Most Expensive Audio Amp and Amplifiers
Any of these worth a mention ?
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I thought I posted that link, they used it to measure the noise on batteries IIRC. In any case the auto-correlation amplifier is an old concept and I still don't see the use of quantifying distortion at these levels.
Ooooooohhhhh, Pivetta! 20,000 Watts!
On a good day, even our own Wayne might be satisfied - for about an hour.
Wow, when you said RF, you really meant business!
Not to start a blood feud here, but don't you think you're overdoing the wide bandwidth bit?
I mean, I also support a wide bandwidth, especially in open loop mode, but let's keep it reasonable. How much sound improvement can we expect if our OL bandwidth is not say 80 kHz, but is say 500 kHz?
Frankly, I am curious, I never even thought of using true RF transistors as output devices. In addition to that, my own experience has left me very uncertain regarding output device Ft. Specifically, I find that using now rather old Motorola MJ2119x devices, with a nominal Ft given as ">4 MHz", to sound arguably better than more modern, 30+ MHz devices - I get a warmer, more involving sound each and every time. Same thing when I exchange older (vintage) Japanese metal can TO-3 devices with these Motorolas - never once failed to get better sound. Well, "better" as I hear it, but appearently, many of those vintage gear owners as well.
My reasoning is that it's all nice and fine to have wide bandwidth, but on the other hand, the wider you open the window, the more muck and grime is also able to get in.
If your own experience is different, I for one would like to hear about it.
I came to using RF transistors at the output during my competition with various tube amps, both DIY (from my experienced in tubes friends) and bought from industry. For having a good reference-competitor, I bought 8000 Euro SE tube 300B amp.
In short, SS SE finally overtaken all tube competitors. This competition was not for profit, but just to proove something to somebody. I speak about quite a serious level of sound quality. But one should forget about achieving such a level, if special tricks in topology, choice of transistors, quality of caps and NFB resistors are not used.
In fact, RF transistors have much smaller Ciss Crss and more flat Crss vs frequency, and by that they are more similar to tubes.
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I think the bandwidth it self might not be important. The important thing is what makes it a wide bandwidth one (such as low capacitance) and finally what you can do with device of such parameters in a real circuit.
Of course, most of the time (most systems) a "slow" system sounds more mellow and more listenable. Not many system will be affected by "overdone" system. When there is bottleneck somewhere in the system chain.
This common bottleneck issue can be solved by designing a complete system, from source to speaker. No secondary sub-system should be allowed to increase the frequency of "attenuate-amplify-attenuate-amplify" of the signal.
VladimirK has made an integrated amplifier for example. He has no choice anyway because the amplifier section do not work well alone or with common preamp so integrated approach is a must.
We haven't discussed the other links such as the specs of the DAC chip (if one has NE5534 in the chain, he may miss so many opportunities
), and the speaker sub-system that has so many "non-scientific/voodoo" contents.@VladimirK
The sheer competitive bet with friends, for say a dinner or something, is the sweetest possible bet. I do know, because every election time, such as now, I bet with my friends on the outcome. They always lose, so I get four or five free dinners. Been like that since the late 90ies.
I figured as much. But my original question still stands - looking the the available bandwidth alone (if that's even possible), what do you gain by extending it over say 10 times the accepted upper limit of hearing, i.e. extending to over say 200 kHz (ref. full power bandwidth into 4 Ohms, at its upper -3 dB point, closed loop)?
I ask about 4 Ohm loads because I don't think there is such a thing as 8 Ohms, not really, although that may work out to be an average impedance, but since I am a fatalist when it comes to loudspeakers as loads, I know there will be dips well below 8 Ohms, very possibly, in fact probably with some wild phase shifts thrown in as a bonus.
@Jay
Agreed, but that was a given. No sense in having a mediocre system powered by an out of this world amplifier. Although, if one is to overdo it anywhere, the power amp would get my vote.
As for the NE op amps, careful there, they a religion in the UK audio business, and those who speak against deities tend to get burned at the stake.
Much like those who think Cordell was off the mark, and Otala was right.
The sheer competitive bet with friends, for say a dinner or something, is the sweetest possible bet. I do know, because every election time, such as now, I bet with my friends on the outcome. They always lose, so I get four or five free dinners. Been like that since the late 90ies.
I figured as much. But my original question still stands - looking the the available bandwidth alone (if that's even possible), what do you gain by extending it over say 10 times the accepted upper limit of hearing, i.e. extending to over say 200 kHz (ref. full power bandwidth into 4 Ohms, at its upper -3 dB point, closed loop)?
I ask about 4 Ohm loads because I don't think there is such a thing as 8 Ohms, not really, although that may work out to be an average impedance, but since I am a fatalist when it comes to loudspeakers as loads, I know there will be dips well below 8 Ohms, very possibly, in fact probably with some wild phase shifts thrown in as a bonus.
@Jay
Agreed, but that was a given. No sense in having a mediocre system powered by an out of this world amplifier. Although, if one is to overdo it anywhere, the power amp would get my vote.
As for the NE op amps, careful there, they a religion in the UK audio business, and those who speak against deities tend to get burned at the stake.
Much like those who think Cordell was off the mark, and Otala was right.
We haven't discussed the other links such as the specs of the DAC chip (if one has NE5534 in the chain, he may miss so many opportunities
There is nothing perfect in this world, but with a system that I have put together, I may say, that I estimate quality of a CD recording. Any imperfection of a recording is listenable. I tend to listen mainly HDCD, XRCD, audiophile quality CD, etc. Maybe it is not good to have a CD testing facility at home, but that is a result of competition with high-resolution tube amps.
As for amp bandwidth itself, if I put RC chain at the input of amp (well above 100kHz cut-off), it affects sound substantially, irrespective of what theory says.
System components are: PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Furutech power cables 1,5m, tuned Shanling CD-T1500 player (EH6922 were replaced by matched NOS Philips Miniwatt SQ tubes, pairs selected from 10 tubes, sound became more "brilliant" and better articulated at bass, 6 pcs of tubes are remaining without use), Analysis Plus Silver Oval In 1m interconnects (bulk silver), self-made integrated amp, Stereovox 600 (top model) 2,5m speaker cables (bulk silver), PMC EB1i speakers, listening room is 36m2. Speakers resolve perfectly all mid and high frequencies, bass articulation depends on amp's topology. If topology is suitable, even 3W amp produces wery pleasant and articulated bass.
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Ooooooohhhhh, Pivetta! 20,000 Watts!
On a good day, even our own Wayne might be satisfied - for about an hour.
Ahhh, 1 kw/ch
will suffice , makes for good bass , tonal balance , instrument size and dynamics and I love betting for dinner also , easiest bets are with politics and F1 ...Politics because most still believe there is an option and F1 because it is as corrupt as politics but with speed , around here we call it WWF1...
You very well could have. I came across that one when I was first using batteries in a test instrument. That was about 2007. There are some other examples. I find it gets about 20 db more range.
One issue I find at hand is the influence of out of band noise. Distortion masked by noise is interesting down to about 30 db below the noise. That should not be very difficult to measure.
What is more interesting is the ADSR envelope modulation effects.
The remaining issue is the comparison of amplifiers under load to unloaded.
It's possible to hear signals below the noise floor but it depends on the circumstances. With GSM phones the TDMA buzz / bumble bee noise caused by demodulation of the transmitter output is audible even though it can be below the audio band limited noise floor but is visible with an FFT plot but the noise floor is high. Typically in a car at speed on the motorway typical speech levels are similar to the background noise level but again the noise level is high.
I don't think it's worth obsessing about the last minute level of distortion when it is swamped by the non linearity of the loudspeaker. Though there is no harm in it as long as it is realised that it is going to have no effect on the sound quality / reproduction accuracy.
I don't think it's worth obsessing about the last minute level of distortion when it is swamped by the non linearity of the loudspeaker. Though there is no harm in it as long as it is realised that it is going to have no effect on the sound quality / reproduction accuracy.
Japan
Last night there was a question about significant hi fi . The only Japanese amp mentioned was Kondo . Kondo is one of many specialist amps in Japan . The man I list below doesn't particularly claim to be an amplifier designer , yet his 2A3 amp ranks as high as any I know ( a Monty Python joke in there somewhere , Life of Brian ) . His speakers are truly remarkable . They have strange measurements . They retrieve detail like no other I know .
The Kondo is said to be based on the PYE Motzart . It doesn't share many of it's features .
FAL Speaker
BTW . If thinking this is some very polite type of sound think again . It would work for home cinema even with his 2A3's . FAL standard demo is Japanese percussion piano . Also European classical . Meet this man if you ever get the chance .
One Germany guy said to me not worth hearing as he had seen the specs ( graphs ) .
日本の打楽器のピアノ
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6895097.html
Last night there was a question about significant hi fi . The only Japanese amp mentioned was Kondo . Kondo is one of many specialist amps in Japan . The man I list below doesn't particularly claim to be an amplifier designer , yet his 2A3 amp ranks as high as any I know ( a Monty Python joke in there somewhere , Life of Brian ) . His speakers are truly remarkable . They have strange measurements . They retrieve detail like no other I know .
The Kondo is said to be based on the PYE Motzart . It doesn't share many of it's features .
FAL Speaker
BTW . If thinking this is some very polite type of sound think again . It would work for home cinema even with his 2A3's . FAL standard demo is Japanese percussion piano . Also European classical . Meet this man if you ever get the chance .
One Germany guy said to me not worth hearing as he had seen the specs ( graphs ) .
日本の打楽器のピアノ
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6895097.html
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Actually, noise is the stuff of magic, even apart from dithering. Addition of noise can actually help to raise a signal that is below the threshold of detectability to above it. Your own auditory receptor may very well for that reason be the noisy system that it is. Therefore, what happens below the noise floor can be very relevant; the fact that there is noise may even contribute to the perception of what is going on at very low levels.
vac
vac
Practical has shown this to not be true , such noise is percieved. , not as distortion , more as a masking of detail ....
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