Dejan. If you had seen this amp you wouldn't have switched on the soldering iron. It was out of a film like Blade Runner or the like. What a tough old work horse it is. Like in those films it went supersonic after the muck was cleaned out and some minor parts fitted. Even the switces and controls are OK. I wonder if the black dust soaked up the electrolyte ? The river I suspect was it consigned to the garage after the hum started. Too fond of it to throw it out perhaps.
Looking at the NAD 3020 the PSU it is 4 x 2200uF. Or 2200 uF if seeing it as a series single supply.
I am feeling very lazy and would appreciate a specualtion from others. I have a 10 amp 300 V servo-variac that seems ( due to my messing about no doubt ) less than perfect. From my crude measuring 2 seconds 40 to drop 100 V. When under my control it is perfect, not so good when the onboard control. It overshoots a bit and sometimes gives up. Lets suppose 250 mS for 10 V ( 5 V if USA ). This is where I get a bit lost. How quickly does an amplifer discharge on real music if a protection issue? I would suggest 5 watts is a typical real RMS wattage that we use. On face value 1 mS is ball park. In reality nothing like that . My specaultion is there would be an optimum reaction time and that 250 mS is not bad if it were reliable. My insinct is 10 seconds would be OK even for expensive vacuum tubes. 1 second ? I dare say how transformers work is helping if the jump is to lets say 270 V ( 135 V ) instantaneous. They will not pass on all of it before the protection comes in.
I am feeling very lazy and would appreciate a specualtion from others. I have a 10 amp 300 V servo-variac that seems ( due to my messing about no doubt ) less than perfect. From my crude measuring 2 seconds 40 to drop 100 V. When under my control it is perfect, not so good when the onboard control. It overshoots a bit and sometimes gives up. Lets suppose 250 mS for 10 V ( 5 V if USA ). This is where I get a bit lost. How quickly does an amplifer discharge on real music if a protection issue? I would suggest 5 watts is a typical real RMS wattage that we use. On face value 1 mS is ball park. In reality nothing like that . My specaultion is there would be an optimum reaction time and that 250 mS is not bad if it were reliable. My insinct is 10 seconds would be OK even for expensive vacuum tubes. 1 second ? I dare say how transformers work is helping if the jump is to lets say 270 V ( 135 V ) instantaneous. They will not pass on all of it before the protection comes in.
Whilst trying the NAD 3020 in my most unlikely combo I noticed that very rare high end quality. Even with no LED's lighting on the power meter or only briefly there was a very great sense of power. Light and dark if a photo.
Very small PSU . Very small maxiumum output. Stated at 20 watts and perhaps 70 watts 4 ohms music. That is it would be 70 watts if a sine wave. The PSU is half that of the Quad 303 which isn't known for being oversized. Most NAD systems I have heard sounded polite and a bit muffled. Not my one. Whilst not bright the sound is extended high and very low. I have heard many valve designs that are cherrished with a worse sound.
Right guys. You need a Lenco GL 75, NAD 3020 and if lucky some Magnepan SMGa. If so nothing high end will sound so much better. Worse still it sounds real. This was very true when using a Smart Phone as the source. That's when you really know you have something. Rubbish in , very good rubbish out.
One lady of the migrants said. " These other countries put their hand in my country " . Her broken English so much better than I could say it. It may not be exactly true, true enough I think.
Very small PSU . Very small maxiumum output. Stated at 20 watts and perhaps 70 watts 4 ohms music. That is it would be 70 watts if a sine wave. The PSU is half that of the Quad 303 which isn't known for being oversized. Most NAD systems I have heard sounded polite and a bit muffled. Not my one. Whilst not bright the sound is extended high and very low. I have heard many valve designs that are cherrished with a worse sound.
Right guys. You need a Lenco GL 75, NAD 3020 and if lucky some Magnepan SMGa. If so nothing high end will sound so much better. Worse still it sounds real. This was very true when using a Smart Phone as the source. That's when you really know you have something. Rubbish in , very good rubbish out.
One lady of the migrants said. " These other countries put their hand in my country " . Her broken English so much better than I could say it. It may not be exactly true, true enough I think.
Dejan. What I might try with the NAD is a a toroid and capacitor upgrade. A 160 VA 18 V + 2 x 10 000 uF fitted to the lid. The NAD PSU for the pre amp. It might even be the toroid powers the dumpers alone ( 2N3055 + 2955 ). Now that might be very easy and good ( brake collector wires ). The output power would be down a fraction. In the interest of a long life that's no bad thing. That would have my driver clips last principle for nicer clipping.
Vigortronix Toroidal Transformer 160VA 0-18V 0-18V | Rapid Online
For the capacitors something in as high a voltage as will fit. The low voltage caps are not the best sounding. I have some 22 000 uF/ 40 V screw terminal computer grades by Samwa. 225 VA TF would be too large.
Vigortronix Toroidal Transformer 160VA 0-18V 0-18V | Rapid Online
For the capacitors something in as high a voltage as will fit. The low voltage caps are not the best sounding. I have some 22 000 uF/ 40 V screw terminal computer grades by Samwa. 225 VA TF would be too large.
I think I was saying I agree. A theory of British designers I hold true is most amps are too much tin foil and not enough copper. They would say leave the caps alone and beef up the transformer. The problem is with the tin foil too large tends to sound less tight. Under sized caps and big transformer can sound rather good. Very tight and deep with beautiful mid band. Now the NAD has this beautiful mid band. Very beautiful I would say. The bass is a bit wooden acoustic. Not the worst fault an amp can have. Everything is a bit Bridge Over Troubled Water in style.
I agree on too much tin foil and too little copper. Besides, I always preferred better balance overall designs. Seems more natural to me. Despite people recommending 2x300 VA toroids for my 2x100/8 amp, I plan to use double 500 or 600 VA. Give it juice, baby. Down with current starvation.
Hi Brad,
Just keep that adhesive in the back of your mind. Remove it and replace with silicone if the old stuff is holding parts. I have been doing this for years, and once you peel that stuff off, you can see in many cases some corrosion. Sometimes the traces are on the verge of failure. CD Players that misbehave may be suffering from this adhesive, and normal operation can return just from popping the older adhesive off.
-Chris
The metal on top of the PCB would be component leads.
Wow, not good at all! Time for a massive clean and replenishment. I'm sorry to hear you had some of those. Your capacitors could be fakes, or Nichicon may have tried to save some money. Nichicon is one of my preferred brands and I just finished installing a ton of them into some HP test equipment (time to maintain the older instruments).
Just keep that adhesive in the back of your mind. Remove it and replace with silicone if the old stuff is holding parts. I have been doing this for years, and once you peel that stuff off, you can see in many cases some corrosion. Sometimes the traces are on the verge of failure. CD Players that misbehave may be suffering from this adhesive, and normal operation can return just from popping the older adhesive off.
-Chris
These caps in the parts drawer were from days at Harman circa 1993, I believe, when I was with the automotive group, and have trimmed leads suggesting preparation for hand insert into 12V amps. So they date back before counterfeits were so prevalent. Having said that they have sat there for quite a while.
I might tear the 3020 apart and reinspect. I haven't been using it much lately as I decided to play the Roland keyboard through the room system and not worry about disturbing the neighbors. I don't recall a great amount of the adhesive except in the vicinity of the bulk caps, at least.
The upgrade paths discussed for the 3020 are intriguing, but I would caution that the design is a rather careful tradeoff of details, including the modest power transformer, which may be protecting the output devices to some extent due to its fairly poor regulation. Areas that would be much safer include the passives in the signal path, like resistors and non-power-related capacitors. But pretty soon you are off into madness. I bought that piece for under 200 dollars, which in retrospect was a lot of money in those days. The fairly funny story is that a quadraphonic receiver of a housemate had failed, and I wanted to upgrade. I called Keith Johnson for advice, expecting that he'd recommend some highish-end machine out of my price range. Instead he suggested the 3020, which he had also just acquired from a friend as he wanted to listen to music and didn't have the time to repair one of his own amps, which he had built into his speakers. In a very KOJ statement he said "I didn't have to do anything to it to make it sound right".
When I went to the now-defunct Paris Audio to see if they had one, I asked for it and was told We are out of stock, but we can give you the shelf sample for now and you can exchange it when the units come in. This was quite palatable as I knew the unit had had some initial bathtub-curve time and was likely going to be reliable. But what surprised me: there was no attempt to upsell! In fact, although the place was fairly quiet, the salesman seemed to speak in almost hushed tones, as if not wanting to be overheard. I asked him about the product, and he admitted that it sounded better than the considerably more expensive pieces that they also sold.
I bought the shelf sample and when contacted when they got stock again, I said Oh, I'm happy with this---I'll just keep it, if that's o.k.
Hi Brad,
Yes, heading down the slippery slope of upgrading this amp isn't something I would recommend. It does trade things off successfully. "Upgrades" can easily do more harm than good in this case.
Isn't it sad that more expensive products can get so much wrong? That was a time and era thing. Just remember, Naim sold the Nate with all it's (severe) problems, including instability. Would this fly in today's market do you think?
-Chris
Yes, heading down the slippery slope of upgrading this amp isn't something I would recommend. It does trade things off successfully. "Upgrades" can easily do more harm than good in this case.
Isn't it sad that more expensive products can get so much wrong? That was a time and era thing. Just remember, Naim sold the Nate with all it's (severe) problems, including instability. Would this fly in today's market do you think?
-Chris
Only in the high end I hope. The meltdowns of some very pricey tube amps come to mind (like the one Jadis power amp, in which Bascom King also saw some oscillatory instability).
But tubes are a trip. I've just spent an uncompensated week (!) of investigations of the behavior of supertriodes as candidates for low-noise front ends. And I have been amazed at how well they do seem to work, much better than my initial expectations. Long term...who knows. But as Keynes (not my favorite economist) said, In the long run we are all dead.
Well, tubes are highly engineered for one. They are not as bad and noisy as many might think. That's as long as the designer knows what they are doing. You do.
Interesting work Brad. Definitely stepping outside your normal range there.
Two more reasons that current tube designers have troubles. Heat and high voltage. The failure modes are different. Many haven't any idea what the withstand voltage is on the various resistor types are as well. Fun wow!
What types did you find worked well? Of course the voltage and current can remain your secret. I'm just curious which types you liked. PM is fine as well if you'd rather.
-Chris
Interesting work Brad. Definitely stepping outside your normal range there.
Two more reasons that current tube designers have troubles. Heat and high voltage. The failure modes are different. Many haven't any idea what the withstand voltage is on the various resistor types are as well. Fun wow!
What types did you find worked well? Of course the voltage and current can remain your secret. I'm just curious which types you liked. PM is fine as well if you'd rather.
-Chris
My friend wants an MC stepup for his all-tube RIAA MM preamp. I had used the 6C45 (6S45 transliterated) as current-source-loaded cathode followers in a hybrid line-level crossover some years ago, and we knew that they were pretty quiet in that application.
I warned him that the high and uncertain low-frequency noise of hollow state would be a challenge. But I dug out some samples and contrived a test setup, using a sand-state current source of 10mA as a plate load. I let the plate voltage float to whatever it wanted (between 60 and 75V), grounded the cathode, and let the grid run at zero quiescent as well. The grid current is negative even for fairly positive grid-cathode excursions, and not a significant noise source for low-Z MC cartridges.
The resulting gain with only the 100k Ap load was around -49 (times). The equivalent input noise density in a 400Hz to 22kHz BW, between 1.8 and 2.5nV/sq rt Hz. But for most of the samples, extending things to 22Hz wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.
I presented some of these data in another thread about quiet tubes. I took data for the setup described and for an additional loading at a.c. of 1.50k, so was able to extract Rp, gm, and mu. Out of 10 samples there was only one serious outlier. Oddly, it seems that the choice of operating current is nearly optimal for noise over the audio band.
And the distortion is very low, mostly second. One tube got down below 40ppm at the crossover between noise and distortion. An FFT of one indicated quite low contributions above 2nd, and at that it looks like the Ap ADC may be making the results appear worse. In any event for typical MC levels the HD should be in the few ppm. That's part of the joy of lightly loaded triodes.
He had played with an old posted design using paralleled 6922 sections, four triodes in all, and was having some noise problems. Although direct paralleling of a plurality of 6C45 may be impractical, it's likely there are ways to match mu and/or plate currents and get, roughly, the square root of n noise improvement. Extravagant and labor intensive, and long-term stability a question to be sure. But to be possible at all is a surprise to me. A lot of work to get into good JFET territory, but folks get mystical about hollow-state.
Ironically, I'm working on a solid-state phono preamp as it is, all discrete, a sort-of current-feedback design with paralleled JFETs. I lost a week to it thanks to this investigation!
I warned him that the high and uncertain low-frequency noise of hollow state would be a challenge. But I dug out some samples and contrived a test setup, using a sand-state current source of 10mA as a plate load. I let the plate voltage float to whatever it wanted (between 60 and 75V), grounded the cathode, and let the grid run at zero quiescent as well. The grid current is negative even for fairly positive grid-cathode excursions, and not a significant noise source for low-Z MC cartridges.
The resulting gain with only the 100k Ap load was around -49 (times). The equivalent input noise density in a 400Hz to 22kHz BW, between 1.8 and 2.5nV/sq rt Hz. But for most of the samples, extending things to 22Hz wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.
I presented some of these data in another thread about quiet tubes. I took data for the setup described and for an additional loading at a.c. of 1.50k, so was able to extract Rp, gm, and mu. Out of 10 samples there was only one serious outlier. Oddly, it seems that the choice of operating current is nearly optimal for noise over the audio band.
And the distortion is very low, mostly second. One tube got down below 40ppm at the crossover between noise and distortion. An FFT of one indicated quite low contributions above 2nd, and at that it looks like the Ap ADC may be making the results appear worse. In any event for typical MC levels the HD should be in the few ppm. That's part of the joy of lightly loaded triodes.
He had played with an old posted design using paralleled 6922 sections, four triodes in all, and was having some noise problems. Although direct paralleling of a plurality of 6C45 may be impractical, it's likely there are ways to match mu and/or plate currents and get, roughly, the square root of n noise improvement. Extravagant and labor intensive, and long-term stability a question to be sure. But to be possible at all is a surprise to me. A lot of work to get into good JFET territory, but folks get mystical about hollow-state.
Ironically, I'm working on a solid-state phono preamp as it is, all discrete, a sort-of current-feedback design with paralleled JFETs. I lost a week to it thanks to this investigation!
The other day I posted my unusual preamp for Denon DL110. It uses one op amp for active 3180/318 uS with a 2 uS passive output filter. The gain about 38 dB feeding into 100 mV 400 K of a Quad second radio input. The 75 uS is passive at the DL110. The DL110 seems uniquely ably to work to the calculated value, all others were very unhappy. The output of the op amp is pulled down to -ve with a resistor. Op amps tried were NE5532 TL072 and MC33078. The MC33078 was easilly the winner. The NE5532 sounded the same in general except less flusid. I prefer paper cone spakers to most plastic types. NE5532 sounded more plastic, nasal . On the whole the pre amp is a very valve like sound in micro detail. The big shock was TL072. It was rather poor. Like OK FM radio. The hiss was OK , very up and down. The others just like resistor noise only slightly louder. Having looked at the specs and internals I suspect nothing about TL072 says it will sound less good compared with NE5532. Maybe the low coil impedance didn't help? Having said that I do remember amps using TL0 series sounding similar. My regret is I didn't have any LM358 ( LM 324 ) to try. As the pull down resistor was fitted it might just have worked. It would have been interesting if it beat TL072. On paper it can't. On paper a TL072 is OK. it isn't.
Looking up LM324 the other day I wanted a very poor CMRR graph to show. It doesn't have one! In fact on the version that shows one was rather good ( text book ? ). The graph I used was I think OP177 which shows CMR instead. This got me thinking. The LM324 noise from memory is about > 40 nV ( 20 dB worse than MC33078). The output has noticable crossover distortion. Having put one in a headphonme amp with pull down resistor it was better than it should have been. It was done to be sure my understanding was complete as best I could. I remember reading up on LM324 and an engineer I assume to be the designer saying how sad they were that it performed so badly. The choice was to sell it cheap and recover the money. I am gald they did as I use them as comparators. They have one big advantage in that they will source and sink current. Looking inside LM 339/324 I always guessed they are generic. For my use 10 kHz would be the limit of my needs. Run open loop as I do they are fast enough. Any LM339 circuit seems to work with them. They will just about run a 24 V relay if at the lower end of the voltage spec. Using other op amps as comparators often brings touble. It is a slight mystery how TL074 can work as one. It must be that the JFET is not perfect and allows quite similar opperation as if bipolar. TL0 series are very useful in having a simple prtection system. If all inputs and outputs are joined togther they tend to work OK ( bipolar most often not, oscillation ). If SMD that is very compact. The JFET's don't seem to mind sharing. Problem is many single op amps will do better. If you only have TL074/84 and need a bit more current they might answer a need.
BTW. That radio input mostly is unused by most Quad owners. It usually sounds quite muffled and to be honest very poor. I looked at the circuit and realised it is the later secetion of the general circuit and should sound fine as when the Quad FM tuner. The problem seems to be playing musical basket ball. You have to get the signal level just right. When you do it is rather good. No piece of equipement I have owned or used when others systems ever got it to work. In the context of the baffle speakers I use I doubt if the signal path could be simpler. The transistor count in to out is very small.
My SE EL 34 amps have been requested to come home. They should suit my 12 Lta 12 inch driver that covers 100 Hz to 8 kHz and tweeter also ( 6 kHz up ). The Quad can drive the 15 inch bass. The very low cost Danbury transformers measure well between 20 Hz and 40 kHz. 15 Hz to 62 kHz being usable limits. I have a hunch the baffle will give up before the output transformer. If so the SE can run it all. I did design the speaker to run with the NAD 3020. I will get to try that. It's EQ points suit the NAD's controls on paper.
I will go to the Whittlebury hi fi show on 18 th and 19 th. At Loricraft if anyone wants a chat, the cleaning machines are my babies ( I took the Wilson/ Monks design and production engineered it. First sold 1968 by Audio and Design Ltd Maidenhead. Wilson circa 1962 ). I don't work for Loricraft, just help out. It will be interesting to see if my sonic memory is good as some high end baffle speakers always seem to turn up. The plan is Lenco 75 with mildly improved Lenco arm, Shure M44-7 or better ( whatever that might be, it isn't V15 ) . NAD 3020 and my speakers as real high end on a beer budget. I dare say a bespoke phono pre amp. The Shure is said to prefer 68 K loading and better still 100 K. 1M and an EQ tweak better still. The 44/7 sounds like a very good MC if asked nicely to work, stereo passes the point where we are the bigger problem. Any less and it would be mono. I have used one with a SME 5 for 78's. When put back to LP use it was stunning. The pre amp using EF86 and 68 K ( Leak , shunt ). An all active design which was without obvious defect compared with anything I have heard. Not the very best perhaps. Bronze or silver position. What I built with MC33078 is a Bronze and I can be happy with that. I solved the big technical problems in the game of technical basket ball as to why.
Looking up LM324 the other day I wanted a very poor CMRR graph to show. It doesn't have one! In fact on the version that shows one was rather good ( text book ? ). The graph I used was I think OP177 which shows CMR instead. This got me thinking. The LM324 noise from memory is about > 40 nV ( 20 dB worse than MC33078). The output has noticable crossover distortion. Having put one in a headphonme amp with pull down resistor it was better than it should have been. It was done to be sure my understanding was complete as best I could. I remember reading up on LM324 and an engineer I assume to be the designer saying how sad they were that it performed so badly. The choice was to sell it cheap and recover the money. I am gald they did as I use them as comparators. They have one big advantage in that they will source and sink current. Looking inside LM 339/324 I always guessed they are generic. For my use 10 kHz would be the limit of my needs. Run open loop as I do they are fast enough. Any LM339 circuit seems to work with them. They will just about run a 24 V relay if at the lower end of the voltage spec. Using other op amps as comparators often brings touble. It is a slight mystery how TL074 can work as one. It must be that the JFET is not perfect and allows quite similar opperation as if bipolar. TL0 series are very useful in having a simple prtection system. If all inputs and outputs are joined togther they tend to work OK ( bipolar most often not, oscillation ). If SMD that is very compact. The JFET's don't seem to mind sharing. Problem is many single op amps will do better. If you only have TL074/84 and need a bit more current they might answer a need.
BTW. That radio input mostly is unused by most Quad owners. It usually sounds quite muffled and to be honest very poor. I looked at the circuit and realised it is the later secetion of the general circuit and should sound fine as when the Quad FM tuner. The problem seems to be playing musical basket ball. You have to get the signal level just right. When you do it is rather good. No piece of equipement I have owned or used when others systems ever got it to work. In the context of the baffle speakers I use I doubt if the signal path could be simpler. The transistor count in to out is very small.
My SE EL 34 amps have been requested to come home. They should suit my 12 Lta 12 inch driver that covers 100 Hz to 8 kHz and tweeter also ( 6 kHz up ). The Quad can drive the 15 inch bass. The very low cost Danbury transformers measure well between 20 Hz and 40 kHz. 15 Hz to 62 kHz being usable limits. I have a hunch the baffle will give up before the output transformer. If so the SE can run it all. I did design the speaker to run with the NAD 3020. I will get to try that. It's EQ points suit the NAD's controls on paper.
I will go to the Whittlebury hi fi show on 18 th and 19 th. At Loricraft if anyone wants a chat, the cleaning machines are my babies ( I took the Wilson/ Monks design and production engineered it. First sold 1968 by Audio and Design Ltd Maidenhead. Wilson circa 1962 ). I don't work for Loricraft, just help out. It will be interesting to see if my sonic memory is good as some high end baffle speakers always seem to turn up. The plan is Lenco 75 with mildly improved Lenco arm, Shure M44-7 or better ( whatever that might be, it isn't V15 ) . NAD 3020 and my speakers as real high end on a beer budget. I dare say a bespoke phono pre amp. The Shure is said to prefer 68 K loading and better still 100 K. 1M and an EQ tweak better still. The 44/7 sounds like a very good MC if asked nicely to work, stereo passes the point where we are the bigger problem. Any less and it would be mono. I have used one with a SME 5 for 78's. When put back to LP use it was stunning. The pre amp using EF86 and 68 K ( Leak , shunt ). An all active design which was without obvious defect compared with anything I have heard. Not the very best perhaps. Bronze or silver position. What I built with MC33078 is a Bronze and I can be happy with that. I solved the big technical problems in the game of technical basket ball as to why.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm324.pdf
A more up to date graph. This was what I wanted. Sourcing and sinking current is rather good for a very modest op amp. CMRR is nothing specail as I suspected. An older one looked nearly as good as any seen. With source and sink take it with a pinch of salt. Test is best.
A more up to date graph. This was what I wanted. Sourcing and sinking current is rather good for a very modest op amp. CMRR is nothing specail as I suspected. An older one looked nearly as good as any seen. With source and sink take it with a pinch of salt. Test is best.
I was searching today without luck for the exact quote from the Life and times of Tristram Shandy. It was about taste. Shandy says additionally to one can not dispute taste as to what he calls Hobby Horse. One is never sure if he means a device. Mostly it is hobbies if I have not misunderstood. If I remember correctly he likens disputing hobbies as like speaking ill of the dead ( I like that ). If I do remember he says approximately" I do not speak of the Hobby Horses of others , or seldom do ". As the book is full of irony one should infer he never misses the chance. When reading DIY Audio it is so like the focus of this book. People who should talk with and respect others seldom miss a chance to dispute. The way people dispute on the internet is like the 1760's. I am sure I never met it before in my life . The 1760's were times of great technical change. Not Least when the Tristram Shandy King GIII was that way inclined in thought and Hobbies ( Science ). Me thinks Shandy and the King are one and the same. GIII refused to have a lady punished who tried to kill him it is said. He understood why and let her off. I doubt it is true. How wonderful if I am wrong. GIII nearly lived and served as long as our Queen. I think I have my time frames right. If not the story is interesting enough.
Posts involving politics removed. Any further breach will result in bin time or (for a repeat offender) banning.I didn't find my quote. Found this and liked it. I had forgoten the true name of the book. I think my dads copy was called just Tristram Shandy.
“It is the nature of an hypothesis, when once a man has conceived it, that it assimulates every thing to itself as proper nourishment; and, from the first moment of your begetting it, it generally grows the stronger by every thing you see, hear, read, or understand.”
― Laurence Sterne, The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman
Wish to say a big thank you to Pano who helped me source drivers for my OB speakers. With so very little trouble I now have something I love. Matt also who sold me the 12 Lta's and measured other things for me. Matt built a flag pole 30 feet tall to get some tests done. Matt even sold me the 12 Lta for peanuts.
“It is the nature of an hypothesis, when once a man has conceived it, that it assimulates every thing to itself as proper nourishment; and, from the first moment of your begetting it, it generally grows the stronger by every thing you see, hear, read, or understand.”
― Laurence Sterne, The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman
Wish to say a big thank you to Pano who helped me source drivers for my OB speakers. With so very little trouble I now have something I love. Matt also who sold me the 12 Lta's and measured other things for me. Matt built a flag pole 30 feet tall to get some tests done. Matt even sold me the 12 Lta for peanuts.
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