Completely the other direction from myself, Dejan,
- in my world, the system prior to the speakers stays the same, I can hook up any speaker - provided all the dumb implementation issues in the carcase are fixed - and the sound will be similar; subjectively, it will "match" every time.I have a whole set of test CDs, and what I look for when I put them on a completely unknown system, using a totally different approach from what I would use myself, are the familiarity markers - aha, I can hear the sound of the recording itself, that of the system is not overriding it. Many times, especially with expensive setups, the "flavour" of the playback chain completely tramples upon the recording, it is almost impossible to recognise the track being the one you know.
Frank, this just shows that there are more than one way leading to Rome. At present, I am listening to my old AR94 speakers, with their suspension replaced and XO caps changed, and they sound better now than they did when they were new. That's because my system today is much better than it was at that time. I tried a few other (borrowed) speakers as well, and the system holds its integrity throughout.
Frankly, I was rather surprised at what I heard when I connected them. They were always reasonably good speaker, no great breakthrough, typical AR fare, yet now they sound cleaner and clearer, with a better tonal balance than ever before.
I think we are talking about getting there in either a BMW or a Mercedes-Benz, which ultimately is not really important at all, the thing is to get there safe and sound.
Frankly, I was rather surprised at what I heard when I connected them. They were always reasonably good speaker, no great breakthrough, typical AR fare, yet now they sound cleaner and clearer, with a better tonal balance than ever before.
I think we are talking about getting there in either a BMW or a Mercedes-Benz, which ultimately is not really important at all, the thing is to get there safe and sound.
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BTW Nige, rgarding your comment on cone tweeters, my AR94 speakers also have a cone for a tweeter, allegedly of AR's manufacture. It leaves nothing to be desired except some dispersion, they beam more than good dome tweeters, but that's their nature, it cannot be helped. Tonally, they are very, very good.
To be clear I love polystyrene sheet. It casues me to be a structural engineer to get what I want from it. The 1/2 inch ply should not corrupt it if not too large.
Adam who was the Celestion rep came from the engineering side. I didn't know this as he had the perfect haircut/suit etc. He told me the SL6 didn't sound right after the most careful free air testing of the drive units. The cure was the glue used in the box. SL6 is a bargain if wanting something very small and excellent. I can forgive the dull tweeter. I mostly dislike metal tweeters except this one. I am told it was made by copper plating so as to have fewer resonance problems. There is a 22 kHz notch filter to deal with the one it has. Some say this helped CD of the day. The metal box version was not my cup of tea. All those people who buy LS3/5A why do you ignore SL6? I would love to own the subwoffers that go with them. I usually hate subwoffers.
I am now in the position of a critic who chances to write a book. Lets be honest my speakers are not very good. I will not give up. My VW is about the same. It needs a serious diagnostic. It uses so litttle fuel I put up with it not having any zip and vibration at > 70 mph. Since being a bit disabled I have not done any servicing. The local garage did it and the trouble started then. They over filled the oil and I suspect it coated the fuel metering resistor due to oil entering the intake via the crankcase breather. At one point hills caused it problems. It is 80 % as it was. On top of doing it wrong they told me I hadn't done the oil filter up very tight. Yes because I know what I am doing. The speakers are like the VW. 80% of what they could be. I have bought all of the things to service the car. I am going to struggle with that oil filter now, I have a chain wrench so should be OK. Hate to do it as the plastic is as new. I bet the o-ring will be almost flat. They said that the sump bolt was nearly falling out ! Unlikely as my 104 kg makes up for any strength problems. I simply hang my weight off of the wrench. To rub salt in the servicing takes 1 hour when you have no ramp. It should take 30 minutes when skilled. 12 years ago the VW garage thought £210 would be OK for that? Parts cost £60 including correct oil. When I asked they only did half what I did, for that it would be £270. They then insulted me by saying it was not a UK car and they were doing me a favour to look at it ( was implied ). I am doing my sons disc brakes when the snow clears and warms up a bit. March 1st is the test date.
Adam who was the Celestion rep came from the engineering side. I didn't know this as he had the perfect haircut/suit etc. He told me the SL6 didn't sound right after the most careful free air testing of the drive units. The cure was the glue used in the box. SL6 is a bargain if wanting something very small and excellent. I can forgive the dull tweeter. I mostly dislike metal tweeters except this one. I am told it was made by copper plating so as to have fewer resonance problems. There is a 22 kHz notch filter to deal with the one it has. Some say this helped CD of the day. The metal box version was not my cup of tea. All those people who buy LS3/5A why do you ignore SL6? I would love to own the subwoffers that go with them. I usually hate subwoffers.
I am now in the position of a critic who chances to write a book. Lets be honest my speakers are not very good. I will not give up. My VW is about the same. It needs a serious diagnostic. It uses so litttle fuel I put up with it not having any zip and vibration at > 70 mph. Since being a bit disabled I have not done any servicing. The local garage did it and the trouble started then. They over filled the oil and I suspect it coated the fuel metering resistor due to oil entering the intake via the crankcase breather. At one point hills caused it problems. It is 80 % as it was. On top of doing it wrong they told me I hadn't done the oil filter up very tight. Yes because I know what I am doing. The speakers are like the VW. 80% of what they could be. I have bought all of the things to service the car. I am going to struggle with that oil filter now, I have a chain wrench so should be OK. Hate to do it as the plastic is as new. I bet the o-ring will be almost flat. They said that the sump bolt was nearly falling out ! Unlikely as my 104 kg makes up for any strength problems. I simply hang my weight off of the wrench. To rub salt in the servicing takes 1 hour when you have no ramp. It should take 30 minutes when skilled. 12 years ago the VW garage thought £210 would be OK for that? Parts cost £60 including correct oil. When I asked they only did half what I did, for that it would be £270. They then insulted me by saying it was not a UK car and they were doing me a favour to look at it ( was implied ). I am doing my sons disc brakes when the snow clears and warms up a bit. March 1st is the test date.
I differ on that view. The friend who first hooked me on high end stuff went from SL6 to SL600 and the difference was marked. I had a pair of 600s in my system once I borrowed from a dealer and had to return them very quickly as they were just too good and I couldn't afford them at the time. True 'hairs on back of neck' stuff.
When I finally did have money I wanted the kingston, but Celestion killed that model very quickly.
Never heard the SL700 tho.
But like you I am pursuing open baffle designs for the near future.
A perfect example of something that measures very well, but is not what it seems to be.
I've just won the war against my own HP PC. In all my years, since 1984, I have seen nothing like this PC. It looks very well on paper, BUT, ...
About 10 days ago, my McAfee (an Intel company) virus protection was not just breached, but literally blown apart by some presumably new virus, since it updates itself regularly. This led to a wildly behaving PC, completely unstable. Whne I open any Internet related screen, I am literally best by advertisements from all sides od the screen. With much manual effort, I can get this forum for example, but I have much trouble posting anything, I type, it comes on the screen, but the forum reports no input. Obviously, something lies between my keyboard and te forum. Lots of other crap like that. The machine is a horror to use, like a system might sound before Frank does his thing.
Now, I have witnessed myself that there are some viruses which will actually survive a low level formatting of the disk, no idea how. And I did want to upgrade the machine with a 7,200 rpm HDD anyway. So, I think I get lucky and obtain a Toshiba 500 GB 7,200 rpm HDD at a good price, almost next door to my home, no pain at all. I pick it up and come home happy. And why not, in my previous career I published over 240 texts in loal PC magazines dealing with hardware performance, I must have put together no less than 100 machines since 1988, when I got into writing, they are no secret to me, later on I demonstrated that in front of TV cameras in my weekly PC show, which I authored and anchored. No big deal, routine work.
Then, the thunderbolt struck. Upon opening my HP PC, I saw something I never saw before and didn't even know existed. Remeber, the full name of the product is "Compaq-Hewlett Packard", both highly regarded names in the industry, and espeially so with Compaq, which I was very well acquanited with and was their regular guest in their HQ for Europe and Midlle East in Munich, 1988-1992.
The overall machine layout is exactly what you'd expect of Compaq and HP, in a single word: outstanding. You are immediately struck by the idea that whoever did this, knows a hell of a lot about it and has made equipment a lot more serious than a PC. Experience screams at you. Except ...
Somebody very clever was given the task of making DAMN sure you cannot install ANYTHING new inside that's smaller than 5.25 inches available from the front. No extra HDDs. To make sure you don't, they isntalled a metal mini rack just below the PSU, between the PSU and the case bottom (mini tower). It is so placed that there is no way in Heaven or Hell that you can squeeze ANYTHING new inside. No access available through a 360 degree angle, which took careful planning, measurement and phyiscal execution. Clearly written intent in bold. So what happened to the possibly greatest virtue of the PC architecture, best knonw for its almost limitless possibilities of expansion in hardware terms, by subsequently adding cards and drives? You probably can do it somehow in a way which completely escapes me, but appearently only by the knowhow people HP service centers employ.
To be fair, there is that 5.25 inch bay, but try as hard as I might, I could not find a 5.25 to 3.5 inch U bracket anywhere. It seems they are now available only for 3.5 to 2.5 inch formats, several dealers told me nobody asked them for a 5.25 to 3.5 inch adapter in years, so nobody stocks them any more. I did phone up HP's service and was politely told that they do not have any either.
A total cul de sac.
Where I got them was in the fact that tey assumed nobody would take anything OUT of it in terms of features. With it, my single front accessible 3.5 inch bay has a memory card reading device, with slots for a lot of types of memory cards. I have no use for it and in fact have never used it, so I took it out and its place installed the new HDD. Sat in like a baby's bottom on the pot. The irony is that the metal cover of that bay has "HDD" pressed into it.
Other than this, I must say I am completely satisfied with the machine. Overall, its is by far the most quiet machine I have ever encountered in its class. Selected extra silent Foxconn fans inside, and I have never heard a HDD as quite as the Toshiba. Intel i3 processor running at 3.2 GHz, 6 GB of RAm (originally 2 GB, I added the extra 4 GB, thank God the RAM slots are standard and easily accessible).
So, looks good, works well, but there is a caveat. No pictures, my pain is quite enough.
I've just won the war against my own HP PC. In all my years, since 1984, I have seen nothing like this PC. It looks very well on paper, BUT, ...
About 10 days ago, my McAfee (an Intel company) virus protection was not just breached, but literally blown apart by some presumably new virus, since it updates itself regularly. This led to a wildly behaving PC, completely unstable. Whne I open any Internet related screen, I am literally best by advertisements from all sides od the screen. With much manual effort, I can get this forum for example, but I have much trouble posting anything, I type, it comes on the screen, but the forum reports no input. Obviously, something lies between my keyboard and te forum. Lots of other crap like that. The machine is a horror to use, like a system might sound before Frank does his thing.
Now, I have witnessed myself that there are some viruses which will actually survive a low level formatting of the disk, no idea how. And I did want to upgrade the machine with a 7,200 rpm HDD anyway. So, I think I get lucky and obtain a Toshiba 500 GB 7,200 rpm HDD at a good price, almost next door to my home, no pain at all. I pick it up and come home happy. And why not, in my previous career I published over 240 texts in loal PC magazines dealing with hardware performance, I must have put together no less than 100 machines since 1988, when I got into writing, they are no secret to me, later on I demonstrated that in front of TV cameras in my weekly PC show, which I authored and anchored. No big deal, routine work.
Then, the thunderbolt struck. Upon opening my HP PC, I saw something I never saw before and didn't even know existed. Remeber, the full name of the product is "Compaq-Hewlett Packard", both highly regarded names in the industry, and espeially so with Compaq, which I was very well acquanited with and was their regular guest in their HQ for Europe and Midlle East in Munich, 1988-1992.
The overall machine layout is exactly what you'd expect of Compaq and HP, in a single word: outstanding. You are immediately struck by the idea that whoever did this, knows a hell of a lot about it and has made equipment a lot more serious than a PC. Experience screams at you. Except ...
Somebody very clever was given the task of making DAMN sure you cannot install ANYTHING new inside that's smaller than 5.25 inches available from the front. No extra HDDs. To make sure you don't, they isntalled a metal mini rack just below the PSU, between the PSU and the case bottom (mini tower). It is so placed that there is no way in Heaven or Hell that you can squeeze ANYTHING new inside. No access available through a 360 degree angle, which took careful planning, measurement and phyiscal execution. Clearly written intent in bold. So what happened to the possibly greatest virtue of the PC architecture, best knonw for its almost limitless possibilities of expansion in hardware terms, by subsequently adding cards and drives? You probably can do it somehow in a way which completely escapes me, but appearently only by the knowhow people HP service centers employ.
To be fair, there is that 5.25 inch bay, but try as hard as I might, I could not find a 5.25 to 3.5 inch U bracket anywhere. It seems they are now available only for 3.5 to 2.5 inch formats, several dealers told me nobody asked them for a 5.25 to 3.5 inch adapter in years, so nobody stocks them any more. I did phone up HP's service and was politely told that they do not have any either.
A total cul de sac.
Where I got them was in the fact that tey assumed nobody would take anything OUT of it in terms of features. With it, my single front accessible 3.5 inch bay has a memory card reading device, with slots for a lot of types of memory cards. I have no use for it and in fact have never used it, so I took it out and its place installed the new HDD. Sat in like a baby's bottom on the pot. The irony is that the metal cover of that bay has "HDD" pressed into it.
Other than this, I must say I am completely satisfied with the machine. Overall, its is by far the most quiet machine I have ever encountered in its class. Selected extra silent Foxconn fans inside, and I have never heard a HDD as quite as the Toshiba. Intel i3 processor running at 3.2 GHz, 6 GB of RAm (originally 2 GB, I added the extra 4 GB, thank God the RAM slots are standard and easily accessible).
So, looks good, works well, but there is a caveat. No pictures, my pain is quite enough.
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To me, the Celestion 600 is a reasonably good speaker, no more, and I am biased towards Celetion, I always liked them.
I do not hold against them the lack of the two bottom octaves, either. They're easy to listen to, they have no obvious vices, but for me, they don't shine anywhere either. Overall, a bit better than average.
I do not hold against them the lack of the two bottom octaves, either. They're easy to listen to, they have no obvious vices, but for me, they don't shine anywhere either. Overall, a bit better than average.
I am sure you are right. The glue problem asked the question I guess for a better cure ? I threw a pair of the 600's onto a system that suited SL6 and heard a lighter and more usual sound. It was the darkness of the SL6 I liked. Very dark black TV is how I would put it. To many I suspect far too dark. Quad 63's are like that. With them there is a bit of the Kings new suit of clothes. They are said to be good so the darkness is correct ? No it isn't but it is not due to great loss of detail. The original Quad 57's would roll up at 25 kHz ( + 3 dB ). Quad choose to have the transformer correct it. In normal engineering we would say a low grade transformer and a cheaper one. I think I can hear that. It sounds darker but not as dark as the 63's. Most of that darkness is the grille. My friend who is a medical doctor had no grilles and a 5 year old daughter. That's dedication. Quad said the most transparent material they could find. Not very I would say. The strangest thing is to see the material move with the smallest air current when bare. Surprising they work at all. I have to say without grilles they are the best speaker I ever heard. 78's sound great on them.
Yes, I would certainly agree with that, Dejan; I've heard the key elements of premium sound emerge from a diverse range of setups - plenty of ways, the most important factor is understanding, being aware of what one is after ...
Sorry about your PC worries - have you done the rounds of of trying the various anti-virus programs, with no success?
I asked if anyone knew a simple geometric proff for 3 phase calculations. 42 years ago I might have been taught this ? I seem to remember it was easier.
tan(120) = −tan(60) = −sin(60)/cos(60) = −(√3/2)/(1/2) = −√3 { x 230 V = - 398.372 V }.
cos(60) = 0.866 . Thus 2cos(60) seems OK also ? It also neatly fits 2 x 60 degrees = 120 degrees for slightly false reasons or is it ?
tan(120) = −tan(60) = −sin(60)/cos(60) = −(√3/2)/(1/2) = −√3 { x 230 V = - 398.372 V }.
cos(60) = 0.866 . Thus 2cos(60) seems OK also ? It also neatly fits 2 x 60 degrees = 120 degrees for slightly false reasons or is it ?
No, the problem occurred when I added micro Torrent to what I have inside, on the advice of my my son. BIG mistake, but I made it.
On anti virus protection - I dumped McAfee and went back to Kaspersky, which I used before and never had any hiccups, let alone serius trouble.
Dan, I am one of the few peope you know who admittely weepingly and heart broken, actually pay for my software, i always have ever since 1984 when i bough my first IBM PC (true Blue), with several sofware packages from the WordPerfect Corp. Not cheap, to be sure, but my prime objective is PC integrity and stability because it is a tool I use to earn money, as does my wife hers. As a published author, I have been ripped off enough times to know how it feels, so I will not, by choice, be the one to do it to anybody, not even to those I love to hate, the Microsoft Corp. A matter of principle.
And Dan, FYI, I do not go to porn sites because I find them lethally boring. Hey man, I don't want to watch the action, I want to be in it.
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