I don't think I will have time to refine this. The gentleman who was asking might like to study it up. This drawing is like sketching a car. Aerodynamics comes later. The green resistor set by experiment , in a production run this would not be used usually. 3 V loss is on the limit, it can be reduced (CCS changed to 2 x PNP ). The transistors will do for any need. They can be any fast device. BD139 if lower current for the 2 x NPN. The CCS needs to be set up for the requirements. 10 uF is what I have a very big box of in high grade thus I start there, change later. The purple resistor set for voltage required respecting the transitor gain. A zener can be used. If you need a +/- supply the other side will be mirror image with PNP replacing NPN and vice verse. Caps reversed to respect the voltage polarity. The rectifier can be done many ways.
The CCS is possibly the quieter option when using an LED. Keep it away from the heat as best you can. CCS can be JFEF type , 2 x 1N4148, or two PNP transistors if not using the LED. Each has it's virtues. Two transistors might tick most boxes. LED looses about 0.4V more.
Any discussion seems to always say a CCS and zener diode to be the best set up. This simply isn't set in stone. If the CCS is replaced with a simple resistor, zener and capacitor to look much like the multiplier it will be a very good arrangement. Equally two cascaded zener stages works very well. The first to replace the capacitance multiplier. CCS and zener will tick most boxes and if sweet spotted by reasonably voltage stable.
The capacitance multiplier can be used before a standard regulator.
The reference device for me is LD1084V if so.
The hunch here is the simplicity is an advantage. As I have said before this is the very circuit I was told to forget in 1973.
The " low grade " capacitor was me being ironic. The 10 000 and 2200 uF used here are " low grade". The other grade is Audiofool grade. The 10 uF is high grade and for that it is imporatant. Panasonic FC is good enough here, they are cheap.
Dejan as I type Belefonte returns to the Carnegie Hall playing. $6.65 from a shop in Baltimore. My friend asked me if I was mad to buy junk records when buying it? $127 for about 90 LP's. All orginals and most very OK. It was this time of year after the CES and I had just been drinking slammers. This one is in A! condition. Living Stereo LSO-6007.
I have bought some bare clone Quad 303 power amp boards from eBay. I have a big heatsink already drilled to take 8 xTO3 devices, circa 0.2deg /watt. Looking at transistors MJ15015 from On Semi they seem a good choice if bought in the UK from CPC. Looking at the data sheet they are lumped together with 2N3055. It looks to me that fall out devices become 3055 perhaps. Very interesting. I have a comfortable 100 V if so to use. I might have output Quads ( Quad clone using Quads ) as it is an all NPN output. Ft is slightly higher than most 3055's so should work well in a beefed up version. I will use a voltage regulator as Quad with PCB supplied. 2 x MJ15015 also I guess ? PSU will be 2 x 63V type caps centre connected to make a 120 V supply ( max ). I will burn off 15 V. This should give me easilly 200 watts into 4 R. I might go the easier route and use the 67V of Quad and settle for 90 watts 4 R still using MJ15015. The latter is almost guaranteed to work.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/468468.pdf
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/468468.pdf
You should talk. If I am V8 you are V12.
Not bad on price thoese.
The big problem with the Quad is the transistors before the outputs. I have 2SA970 2SD756 2SB716 if using 100 V . Sanyo 2SA1209 2SC2911 might do the duties of the TO18 devices. If the old route BC560 BC547CT-A MPSA06/56 BD139/140 perhaps.
MJ21194G - ON SEMICONDUCTOR - TRANSISTOR, NPN, TO-3 | CPC
Not bad on price thoese.
The big problem with the Quad is the transistors before the outputs. I have 2SA970 2SD756 2SB716 if using 100 V . Sanyo 2SA1209 2SC2911 might do the duties of the TO18 devices. If the old route BC560 BC547CT-A MPSA06/56 BD139/140 perhaps.
MJ21194G - ON SEMICONDUCTOR - TRANSISTOR, NPN, TO-3 | CPC
I suffered a bad program crash this morning, the simulator again. I say again because it has always been odd and could play nasty tricks, which i withstood for years, but in the end, it got me.
In short, my current capabilities are greatly reduced. So I'll have to investigate how to print PDF files from it. Andrew, if you are in any hurry, look over the other topic I visit he, John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier, I posted them there about a month and a half ago.
In short, my current capabilities are greatly reduced. So I'll have to investigate how to print PDF files from it. Andrew, if you are in any hurry, look over the other topic I visit he, John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier, I posted them there about a month and a half ago.
Richard, your mailbox is full, so the reply is here.
That's the thing, Richard, you can't. Only 7 pairs were made before one of the company making them owners suffered a near fatal bike accident, which left him a life long cripple, the only thing he can move is his left hand pinkie. He was the money man of the operation and without him, the company folded up. That's one reason.
The other reason is that the whole thing was based on French made Son Audax drivers. Harman International who owned them closed the company down in 2006. No more drivers.
As for e-bay, you may want to click showing their around the world sites because all 7 pairs remained in Europe - Italy, Belgium, Netherlands and Serbia. So if it does show up, it'll be there. If one such speaker does show up, for your sake, consult me because later on another guy took over the operation and he "improved" it by ruining it, and consequently buried the company for good.
My guess is you will never see it. Anyone who owns a pair is not very likely to sell them, unless a driver breaks down, but there are no straight one on one replacements. The only pair in Serbia is mine, and I won't sell at any price.
After all, it was my idea to make an upgradeable speaker, which could easily be taken from a standard speaker, to biamped and to triamped, semi-active or fully active by shuffling some wires inside, using its built in crossover or an external crossover.
I can't figure out how do I attach a picture with this e-mail, so I'll send a picture via the measurements thread.
Cheers,
DVV
That's the thing, Richard, you can't. Only 7 pairs were made before one of the company making them owners suffered a near fatal bike accident, which left him a life long cripple, the only thing he can move is his left hand pinkie. He was the money man of the operation and without him, the company folded up. That's one reason.
The other reason is that the whole thing was based on French made Son Audax drivers. Harman International who owned them closed the company down in 2006. No more drivers.
As for e-bay, you may want to click showing their around the world sites because all 7 pairs remained in Europe - Italy, Belgium, Netherlands and Serbia. So if it does show up, it'll be there. If one such speaker does show up, for your sake, consult me because later on another guy took over the operation and he "improved" it by ruining it, and consequently buried the company for good.
My guess is you will never see it. Anyone who owns a pair is not very likely to sell them, unless a driver breaks down, but there are no straight one on one replacements. The only pair in Serbia is mine, and I won't sell at any price.
After all, it was my idea to make an upgradeable speaker, which could easily be taken from a standard speaker, to biamped and to triamped, semi-active or fully active by shuffling some wires inside, using its built in crossover or an external crossover.
I can't figure out how do I attach a picture with this e-mail, so I'll send a picture via the measurements thread.
Cheers,
DVV
Attachments
My apologies to all, this is a message to Richard Marsh, and is related to my loudspeakers as a fairly rare piece of audio gear which both measures well and sounds even better.
In brief, it measured as reasonably efficient at 92 dB/2.83V/1 m, with an anechoic response of 36...22,000 Hz +/-3 dB, but 40...18,000 Hz +1, -1.5 dB, which is as good as, or better than studio tape decks. L to R box differences within 0.5 dB. It can be biamped or triamped, party or fully active, as you choose and as you shuffle around some internal wiring made by pure silver litz wiring from Neotech. The internal passive x-over is point to point soldered, however in three distinct groups, so you can have a powered woofer but passive mid and treble, almost any combination possible. With suitable amplification, it will deliver up to 114 dB SPL at 1 m.
It main attraction though is the fact that it is the easiest load I know of in dynamic speakers. Nominal impedance is 8 Ohms, maximum is 12 Ohms, minimum is 6.5 Ohms, worst case phase shift is -25 degrees. Literally ANY amp will be able to deliver its best with it, but at its own risk. If anything is not right, the speaker will show it up, and vice versa, if the amp is good, the speaker will come on song. Frank would probably kill for it, I reckon. Even tight wad Nige would dish out the dough for it, I guarantee it.
I am proud of it, indeed, it was my design brief, and was developed by a Friend of mine, Mirko Bevenja, who did 95% of the development wotk regarding cabinet and drivers, and we developed the crossover together. It took us 6 months to get the crossover just right, very tedious work, but in the end, it was well worth it. I am pleased to say that a friend from Belgium actually drove down to hear it and left with two pairs. Another friend from Italy also bought one and is very happy with it. Only 7 pairs were made before the company dissolved, a great pity.
In reality, they are my pivot point in the sense that I value whatever according to how it sounds over them. This is in line with Frank's views, I think, to build a system which is not there, it simply disappears and leaves you with the music. I can do it in three ways:
1. Let my Karan Acoustics KA-i180 integrated amp do all the work. It's rated at 180/256W into 8/4 Ohms. I was told by people that this combination sounded like the best of SETs without any of tube amplification problems and all the virtues of solid state;
2. Use Luxman C-03 preamp, fully refreshed with new caps, drive my Marantz 170 DC power amp, also fully refreshed and somewhat beefed up with main caps which are much larger than originaly (1 dual 12,000 uF cap originally, now 2 discrete 22,000 uF caps), or
3. Use my Citation 24 amp (2x100W/8) for the mid and treble and my Harman/Kardon PA 2400 power amp (2x170W/8) for the bass in a biamping scheme. Aletrnatively, use my Marantz 170 DC ampf for the bass and my Marantz 1152 DC integrated amp in power amp mode also for biamping. Both have very low global NFB of just 12 dB. The last H/K amp, 6550 integrated, could also be used in power amp mode for either triamping, or, using an active XO, for going active.
Either way, nothing in my entire audio life has given me as much pleasure as those speakers.
In brief, it measured as reasonably efficient at 92 dB/2.83V/1 m, with an anechoic response of 36...22,000 Hz +/-3 dB, but 40...18,000 Hz +1, -1.5 dB, which is as good as, or better than studio tape decks. L to R box differences within 0.5 dB. It can be biamped or triamped, party or fully active, as you choose and as you shuffle around some internal wiring made by pure silver litz wiring from Neotech. The internal passive x-over is point to point soldered, however in three distinct groups, so you can have a powered woofer but passive mid and treble, almost any combination possible. With suitable amplification, it will deliver up to 114 dB SPL at 1 m.
It main attraction though is the fact that it is the easiest load I know of in dynamic speakers. Nominal impedance is 8 Ohms, maximum is 12 Ohms, minimum is 6.5 Ohms, worst case phase shift is -25 degrees. Literally ANY amp will be able to deliver its best with it, but at its own risk. If anything is not right, the speaker will show it up, and vice versa, if the amp is good, the speaker will come on song. Frank would probably kill for it, I reckon. Even tight wad Nige would dish out the dough for it, I guarantee it.
I am proud of it, indeed, it was my design brief, and was developed by a Friend of mine, Mirko Bevenja, who did 95% of the development wotk regarding cabinet and drivers, and we developed the crossover together. It took us 6 months to get the crossover just right, very tedious work, but in the end, it was well worth it. I am pleased to say that a friend from Belgium actually drove down to hear it and left with two pairs. Another friend from Italy also bought one and is very happy with it. Only 7 pairs were made before the company dissolved, a great pity.
In reality, they are my pivot point in the sense that I value whatever according to how it sounds over them. This is in line with Frank's views, I think, to build a system which is not there, it simply disappears and leaves you with the music. I can do it in three ways:
1. Let my Karan Acoustics KA-i180 integrated amp do all the work. It's rated at 180/256W into 8/4 Ohms. I was told by people that this combination sounded like the best of SETs without any of tube amplification problems and all the virtues of solid state;
2. Use Luxman C-03 preamp, fully refreshed with new caps, drive my Marantz 170 DC power amp, also fully refreshed and somewhat beefed up with main caps which are much larger than originaly (1 dual 12,000 uF cap originally, now 2 discrete 22,000 uF caps), or
3. Use my Citation 24 amp (2x100W/8) for the mid and treble and my Harman/Kardon PA 2400 power amp (2x170W/8) for the bass in a biamping scheme. Aletrnatively, use my Marantz 170 DC ampf for the bass and my Marantz 1152 DC integrated amp in power amp mode also for biamping. Both have very low global NFB of just 12 dB. The last H/K amp, 6550 integrated, could also be used in power amp mode for either triamping, or, using an active XO, for going active.
Either way, nothing in my entire audio life has given me as much pleasure as those speakers.
Always was, Russ. It all comes together or not in the speaker/room interaction. Making a speaker insensitive to the romm is VERY hard to work on and not really possible. Reverberation and standing waves will be different for each and every room, so the best one can do is to make a speaker which will do well in most rooms.
My reasoning was that I need a central pivot point around which the whole systems develops. I have taken this logic further; for example, when I am considering a power amp, I start from its output stage. How much power do I want, into which impedance, into how complex a load, and what's the source of feeding that stage like. It quickly starts to become overwhelming. I want a load insensitive amp, which means that it must be able to deliver at least 90% of its nominal output voltage into 2 Ohms, which implies at least a triple output stage, and that only if you are using very powerful devices, like say Motorola/ON Semi MJL 4281/4302, plastic package but rated at 230W per device.
And you have to feed it quality power, so I assume the worst case of energy requirements, 2 Joules per every 10W of dissipated power. Thus, I would need it if it's rated at say 100W/8 Ohms to deliver like 200W/4 Ohms and 360W/2 Ohms, which implies aroud 70 Joules (!!!) of power reserves. But do that, and it will never sell you short, even if you break the bank buying transformers and large capacitors.
My reasoning was that I need a central pivot point around which the whole systems develops. I have taken this logic further; for example, when I am considering a power amp, I start from its output stage. How much power do I want, into which impedance, into how complex a load, and what's the source of feeding that stage like. It quickly starts to become overwhelming. I want a load insensitive amp, which means that it must be able to deliver at least 90% of its nominal output voltage into 2 Ohms, which implies at least a triple output stage, and that only if you are using very powerful devices, like say Motorola/ON Semi MJL 4281/4302, plastic package but rated at 230W per device.
And you have to feed it quality power, so I assume the worst case of energy requirements, 2 Joules per every 10W of dissipated power. Thus, I would need it if it's rated at say 100W/8 Ohms to deliver like 200W/4 Ohms and 360W/2 Ohms, which implies aroud 70 Joules (!!!) of power reserves. But do that, and it will never sell you short, even if you break the bank buying transformers and large capacitors.
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Indeed they "sound" good, Dejan - solid engineering, very decent sensitivity, but most importantly, very kind to amplifiers - this gets one a long way towards the "good stuff" ...
Though I wouldn't talk of this part of the chain being of ultimate importance, it's part of the jigsaw - the essential for me is the tuning or optimising of the whole setup, which can be done for every combination of components. As an example coming from a very, very different direction how about Apogee Scintillas, one of the nastiest impedances in the audio world - a chap on another forum who understood exactly what the goal is, managed to fluke the tweaking of an amp that had the guts to drive these, and got the "big sound", in spades. Here, the amplifier was absolutely the key, the Scintillas were standard issue - a lot of effort also went into getting the connection between amp and speakers just right.
Though I wouldn't talk of this part of the chain being of ultimate importance, it's part of the jigsaw - the essential for me is the tuning or optimising of the whole setup, which can be done for every combination of components. As an example coming from a very, very different direction how about Apogee Scintillas, one of the nastiest impedances in the audio world - a chap on another forum who understood exactly what the goal is, managed to fluke the tweaking of an amp that had the guts to drive these, and got the "big sound", in spades. Here, the amplifier was absolutely the key, the Scintillas were standard issue - a lot of effort also went into getting the connection between amp and speakers just right.
Dejan. I know you like output triples, see link below.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/188143-groner-triple.html#post2556805
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/188143-groner-triple.html#post2556805
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'John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II' thread will reach 60,000 posts. I am sure there are some great posts with insight in to some important and significant things about this hobby. On first look it may be seen as ostentatious but some other forums have 'thanks' sign to be posted to the significant post which may help in easy finding and learning. Though I am totally noob about electronics there were some very good significant posts by Mr. Terry Given, Mr. Morgan Jones (just to name a few, there are many in this great forum) Which if highlighted by some method would be very useful.
Regards.
Regards.
Listening to the equipment rather than the music, eh?
I wonder what takes more brainpower, the artists recording the music or the audiophile listening to the recording?
I do indeed, Nige, but I generally stick to emitter-followers, that being the fastest known connection. Slew them there trannies.
I honestly don't remember, Andrew, I am still shell shocked by the builders whom I just managed to kick out the other day, after they ruined my life for 6 months.
All I do remember is that I posted my 3 types of regulators there, but when was that, I honestly don't remember. Don't worry, I'll think of something.
I found three dated 24th Nov.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...ch-preamplifier-part-ii-2908.html#post4131638 and the Zener + shunt above it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...ch-preamplifier-part-ii-2908.html#post4131638 and the Zener + shunt above it.
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Yes, those are the ones, well done Andrew.
The full Monty, message #58148, can be expanded to a full blown full power amp stabilizer by adding output devices and changing the value of the driver to something bigger.
For anyone else interested, look up John Curl's Blowthorch preamp, messages 58146, 58147 and 58148.
The full Monty, message #58148, can be expanded to a full blown full power amp stabilizer by adding output devices and changing the value of the driver to something bigger.
For anyone else interested, look up John Curl's Blowthorch preamp, messages 58146, 58147 and 58148.
Just a note on the shunt regulator. As shown, it is used in my headphone amps, and while I have not actually measured the noise level, I can safely say that it is extremely low, almost completely inaudible with headphones on ears at full blast. However, I must also add that LM regulators are very sensitive regarding preceeding caps, and in my case I use two whopping big Fisher & Tausche 4,700 uF/40V caps (per channel).
Just for the hell of it, I also tried 2,200 uF caps and some noise could just be detected. By 3,300 uF it was gone, so I used 4,700 uF for good measure, and also because I had a lot of them.
I got exactly the same no noise results using Panasonic's M series 4,700 uF/50V, which I also have a lot of.
Just for the hell of it, I also tried 2,200 uF caps and some noise could just be detected. By 3,300 uF it was gone, so I used 4,700 uF for good measure, and also because I had a lot of them.
I got exactly the same no noise results using Panasonic's M series 4,700 uF/50V, which I also have a lot of.
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