Nigel, I to have known Ivor for a number of years and I too, use an LP12. I visited his factory back in 1976, and we have spent days together discussing audio. I found that he was very closed about 'what worked' but once in a while, he would give me a further hint, and I might be virtually 'stunned' at the originality of the concept. Yes, he too, got caught in only believing in his own ad copy, and would not let anything else in. I never found another product that he made to be nearly as significant as the LP-12.
Nige, I haven't heard a Linn for ages. But I did see one of their amps opened up for service, and I must say, I really liked what I saw. Very neat, almost pedantic, it inspisred confidence.
Unfortunately, I never got to hear once it was repaired, it went out of my friend's shop in a jiffy. A pity, I would really like to have heard it.
Unfortunately, I never got to hear once it was repaired, it went out of my friend's shop in a jiffy. A pity, I would really like to have heard it.
I like him because he was always nice to me and told me things that were true. If it sounds better it is better. Roy Gandy told me two variables is OK , one is better. After that any guess how to solve a problem. Hence my obsession with simplicity. Roy said if three things are manipulated you never truly know what you did. It was Roy who said I must visit Ivor and don't wait to be asked.
I tried a Rega 6 turntable yesterday. It looks no better than it ever did. It sounds fantastic.
LP 12 tells us that when something looks finished there is still years of little things to do. Ray Collins took me out for a drink one day. He was with Ivor when Ariston was involved (They sold Linns with that badge, Ivor was left with 100 they refused to buy). Ivor himself told me and it was also 1976.
Ray was out of the film " Get Carter ". Ray obviously loved Ivor as much as us all (if you don't you never met him or were jealous is my guess). Ray said no one should doubt a man who spends all his money on a hi fi after just getting married. Ray used to do listening tests with Ivor. Ray said he couldn't hear the differences and would humour Ivor by saying he did. Ray had no doubt about Ivor's sincerity. Ray was a a tough guy, I liked him very much. He could drink a bottle of Malt Wisky and not get drunk. He smoked , no smoke ever came out! Pink Nylon shirt which had not existed for years.
Ivor said he went to Israel and returned a decorated captain in the army ( 6 day war ). His dad wasn't impressed as he had not gone into medicine as planned (or whatever , I think brain surgeon was the way he put it). He had sold a TD 150 and could not get on with direct drives. His dad would only build him 50 TD150's if Ivor was serious (not the one he wanted). Jack designed the bearing as he thought the TD150 lost out in that dept. Hamish Roberson a friend sold the 49. Hamish wanted it back engineered to TD150 to save money. Arisitons after that sit between TD150 and LP12. The TD150 is ground on centres . That means 2 x 1/10000" tolerances as the ball is not perfect. The LP12 bearing a work of art.
All the racing cars are more or less the same . The ones that wins is the better one on details. LP12 also.
Ivor " I never met anyone who took an interest in the LP12 who knew less about it than me ".
As far as I know they started with a Rotel and made it bigger and better. As I was a bit involved in the early days of Rotel, that pleases me. I know Mike Balance (yes that is his name ) who was one of their engineers.
I did a very intriguing mod to a Rotel RA931. I fitted it with bi-metalic 3 A fuses and 1 uF bypasses. The RA931 has the fuses in the feedback path so I risked it. Now Colleen's son has to wait for it to cool down to listen, so far the fuses protected the outputs. The weird bit is Dan said it sounds much better. I borrowed it recently and it sounds great. I would stick my neck out and say it might be better!!!! Bi-metal must have measurable distortion. The 1 uF and feedback might solve that? The damping factor might be better my new way. One thing is we all should bi-pass fuses,
On looking like a Rotel: afterwards, I managed to get hold of its service manual, and frankly Nige, it looks like no Rotel I have ever seen. WAY more complex, and the topology is like nothing Rotel has used in its better models for the last 20 or so years.
My comment on build quality still stands - excellent work.
Here is something about human perception:
Feeling Small: Exploring the Tactile Perception Limits : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group
Enjoy!
Feeling Small: Exploring the Tactile Perception Limits : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group
Enjoy!
And also, a very interesting discussion of swings and roundabouts here, A Follow-Up To "The Magic of Design and Synergy" ...
The phrase "Crossing the Threshold" is Yet Another Term for convincing sound ... and, I came across this piece after discovering the little gem of a passage from the famous Radiotron Designer’s Handbook, headed "The ear as a judge of fidelity",.
The phrase "Crossing the Threshold" is Yet Another Term for convincing sound ... and, I came across this piece after discovering the little gem of a passage from the famous Radiotron Designer’s Handbook, headed "The ear as a judge of fidelity",
.Here is something about human perception:
Feeling Small: Exploring the Tactile Perception Limits : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group
Enjoy!
Our hero returns.
The question will soon arise here who's ear !And also, a very interesting discussion of swings and roundabouts here, A Follow-Up To "The Magic of Design and Synergy" ...
The phrase "Crossing the Threshold" is Yet Another Term for convincing sound ... and, I came across this piece after discovering the little gem of a passage from the famous Radiotron Designer’s Handbook, headed "The ear as a judge of fidelity",
Frank, I take great pleasure in noting that one of their two approaches is what I have strived for, system neutrality. I have come a long way, but I'm not quite there - yet.
I think I'll make another step forward once I get these "#$%&/() builders out and move into what used to be my room 1961-1983, in the meanwhile usurped by my son, who now lives separately, so I get the room back. It has more space, and in terms of the dedicated furniture and outlay, VASTLY more space, easily enabling full biamping.
Oh, it's going to be fun!
I think I'll make another step forward once I get these "#$%&/() builders out and move into what used to be my room 1961-1983, in the meanwhile usurped by my son, who now lives separately, so I get the room back. It has more space, and in terms of the dedicated furniture and outlay, VASTLY more space, easily enabling full biamping.
Oh, it's going to be fun!
Yes, this place is becoming a bit dull, it's become all about measurements, science and pseudo science. Too many people listen through their oscilloscopes.
We have been told that our ears don't mean a thing, because they were not used in a scientific way, under controlles condirions, and whatnot. Personal experience menas nothing if it's not in accord with specialized hearing of trained for panel listening people. Just how that influences our hearing, in our rooms, we were never told. After all, we don't matter, John, the scientifically put together panels will tell us all we need to know.
SY, you are the God of Strawmen here.
You NEVER EVER give any specifics, you just ponitficate. Any statement contrary to your beliefs which you have no answer to is immediately labelled as a strawman argument.
That's all I will ever have to say to you, as of now, you are No.1 on my ignore list. You offer nothing, you have nothing to give. Your short clips are simply empty and devoid of any thought you might share because there is no thought in them, just snide remarks not worth anyone's care except a few dummy disciples people like you always somehow manage to find.
You NEVER EVER give any specifics, you just ponitficate. Any statement contrary to your beliefs which you have no answer to is immediately labelled as a strawman argument.
That's all I will ever have to say to you, as of now, you are No.1 on my ignore list. You offer nothing, you have nothing to give. Your short clips are simply empty and devoid of any thought you might share because there is no thought in them, just snide remarks not worth anyone's care except a few dummy disciples people like you always somehow manage to find.
Hi,
That is always the case if you hang around the same forum for too long.
Basically there are two undercurrents: one that holds on to scientifically proven fact religiously waiting for the others to prove them wrong, the other one knows deep down that there's still a huge territory to be uncovered but lack the means to prove it.
Both sides end up frustrated and nothing advances.
A shame really as with a little co-operation on both sides we could do some testing and compare note, regardless of what science tells us what is true today.....
For the time being, don't let science get in the way....Enjoy the music.
Cheers,
That is always the case if you hang around the same forum for too long.
Basically there are two undercurrents: one that holds on to scientifically proven fact religiously waiting for the others to prove them wrong, the other one knows deep down that there's still a huge territory to be uncovered but lack the means to prove it.
Both sides end up frustrated and nothing advances.
A shame really as with a little co-operation on both sides we could do some testing and compare note, regardless of what science tells us what is true today.....
For the time being, don't let science get in the way....Enjoy the music.
Cheers,
Actually, I gave several dozen references earlier in the thread to the answers dvv seemed to be looking for, but that may (in retrospect) have been too intimidating.
As is well-known here, I'm always happy to help people set up good ears-only tests, both through my explanatory article in Linear Audio and through helping with the design of specific experiments. The "too difficult" excuse is not a compelling reason to accept extraordinary assertions made without evidence. The willingness to do the work to perform actual experiments is what separates the gasbags from the truly open-minded.
As is well-known here, I'm always happy to help people set up good ears-only tests, both through my explanatory article in Linear Audio and through helping with the design of specific experiments. The "too difficult" excuse is not a compelling reason to accept extraordinary assertions made without evidence. The willingness to do the work to perform actual experiments is what separates the gasbags from the truly open-minded.
Hi,
Having followed all this from my Swiss chair, so to speak, I guess the replies were not just intimidating but also clearly irritating.
After all if someone clearly expresses an opinion or a single isolated experience, and states it as such, surely no proof of it is required?
So, as my dad would have done, we'll keep you both busy:
Dejan, remember the silver wire run to the woofer inside your speakers?
Care to try out the following test:
Replace all the wiring from amp to speaker units (or x-over input for a start) with single core wire. 1.2mm for bass, 0.8mm for mid and 0.6mm for the tweeters.
No need for twisting, the idea is just the effect of single strand versus multi-strand.
Make sure every run is of equal length.
You can even do it with copper wire if you like, just keep the + and - runs //.
Next double up the - side run only and listen again.
If you hear any difference, try to figure out a way to measure it.
SY, try to score a set or two of E84L/7320 Siemens for your Red Light District amp.
Normally they should all be matched straight out of the factory.
Listen first, then see if you can measure the difference with whatever you're using now.
Up to you guys to do the tests. (Granted, SY got the easier one)
Cheers and relax,
Having followed all this from my Swiss chair, so to speak, I guess the replies were not just intimidating but also clearly irritating.
After all if someone clearly expresses an opinion or a single isolated experience, and states it as such, surely no proof of it is required?
So, as my dad would have done, we'll keep you both busy:
Dejan, remember the silver wire run to the woofer inside your speakers?
Care to try out the following test:
Replace all the wiring from amp to speaker units (or x-over input for a start) with single core wire. 1.2mm for bass, 0.8mm for mid and 0.6mm for the tweeters.
No need for twisting, the idea is just the effect of single strand versus multi-strand.
Make sure every run is of equal length.
You can even do it with copper wire if you like, just keep the + and - runs //.
Next double up the - side run only and listen again.
If you hear any difference, try to figure out a way to measure it.
SY, try to score a set or two of E84L/7320 Siemens for your Red Light District amp.
Normally they should all be matched straight out of the factory.
Listen first, then see if you can measure the difference with whatever you're using now.
Up to you guys to do the tests. (Granted, SY got the easier one
)Cheers and relax,
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