Sound Quality Vs. Measurements

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I just looked at the u-tube on Harold Black, and while it is interesting, it is only part of what Harold Black went through back in the 1920's-30's, and this added significant info is available in other u-tube presentations.
From an engineers point of view, he suffered much of what all advanced concepts suffer when first brought forth. For example, he had to guard against others in the organization 'taking over' and claiming that without their input, feedback would never work. Or the British Post Office denying a patent for feedback, because it appeared to be a form of perpetual motion.

Harold did keep one hell of a notebook ;)
 

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FM ACOUSTICS Manny Huber , still considered by many to make the finest audio amplifiers ...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zaG5d98zVC0

I've watched and listened, but quite honestly, I don't quite see anything new here, all of this has been possible for a long time.

From this brief presentation, I don't understand what is new about selectable input impedances and capacitances? I've seen that on many a unit before.

I also fail to understand how is their 5 way equalizer so superior to, for example, the parametric EQ SAE offered us in 1975?

I have no doubt they made it all really well, they have a good rep for doing things the way they should be done, as well as for reliability, but so do other companies as well, like Spectral, Levinson, Krell and so forth.
 
Nigel, it is not useful to 'second guess' Harold Black. You can google just about anything that he thought in the early days and why he went to negative feedback from all transformer coupled all push-pull class A amps that were used in the 1920's. These early amps probably would still sound good today driving a horn loaded system, if we could try some.

No doubt John.

I understand telegraphy as unfortunately like Geoffrey Horn I was forced to do it ( Quad Tuners were partly his baby, AM 3 made at Horns Oxford workshop were his dad built radios) .

I accept your point. It is like when people force history on to me I always say " so you were there" ?

My feeling is the fascination ran riot with them . That makes sense as it is a race to patent the uses. I think you are more than right in what you say and that was my point. It could not be for telegraphy that they used 50 db of feedback . It was to push the boundaries of science.

I can understand the point about a perpetual motion machine. It looks that way at first glance. I guess noise or electrons jumping prevents that. Some even now talk of echo's of the loop . That can only be said to be untrue by assuming certain things about hearing. High speed in an amp does seem wise if only for that.
 
You know talking of history is the same as assuming things about hearing. It is at best an informed guess and that's all.


I was at a seance. A friend reminded me of how evil spirits arrived in the room. Sorry to say they didn't . He was convinced as was his cousin. Two people sincerely believing in something that happened in the same space at the same time and the third person not . I truly believe they did see something. I didn't see it and that's all I know. A lack of sensibility I guess? Note I don't do down what I do not know. And that was not even secondhand reporting. I was there and saw it differently.

I finished a project last night that has caused many problems. By simplifying it works better. To be honest without this it was a slightly dangerous set of problems it had. This meant abandoning the text book route. I wrote to Colleen. It's so dam nice it is like a life form, I said. After a compliment I replied" I claim no great part in what I did. It simply evolved." It was survival of the fittest component and that's all.
 
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I've watched and listened, but quite honestly, I don't quite see anything new here, all of this has been possible for a long time.

From this brief presentation, I don't understand what is new about selectable input impedances and capacitances? I've seen that on many a unit before.

I also fail to understand how is their 5 way equalizer so superior to, for example, the parametric EQ SAE offered us in 1975?

I have no doubt they made it all really well, they have a good rep for doing things the way they should be done, as well as for reliability, but so do other companies as well, like Spectral, Levinson, Krell and so forth.

New, its audio, evolution not revolution , so You must be kidding around .. right ?, :)
 
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I have no doubt they made it all really well, they have a good rep for doing things the way they should be done, as well as for reliability, but so do other companies as well, like Spectral, Levinson, Krell and so forth.

One function that I noticed with their preamplifier -which I would like to see on every RIAA pre- is the “vertical and horizontal knob”.

I know that Dimitri has done some good work on this, so I hope he will contribute here. :)

George
 
Donkey, Is that what they told you :), would loved to have been they fly on the wall with you explaining the sound of those SMT caps ..............

"According to a Chinese saying, “In heaven there is dragon meat, and on earth there is donkey meat.” But it has to be pure donkey meat, straight up. Messing with heaven on earth, Walmart’s China operation has apparently sold and now recalled fox meat-tainted “five spice” donkey meat and created quite a headache for the global retailer."
:rofl:

I did buy a nice fox tail paint brush but maybe...
 
I don't use them but the equalizer seemed very different in its operation. You didn't think so, fair enough.

On basis of that admittedly too short and vague presentation, yes, I did have the impression that we were in fact being shown a graphic equalizer, possibly with a larger than usual Q factor.

However, I'd like to add two notes, for absolute precision:

1. Hearing is believeing. If I heard it at that demo, I would surely have heard it better and might have loved it as is. As things stand now, thais was not the case, too many layers in between, and

2. I understand the time was limited and did not allow either for vaxing lyrical about it, or providing more data on its features. The man had a whole system to present, although I had the impression that he would have preferred talking about the phono stage more.

Scott, I really believe my own ears only. Hearing is believing, you might say. This is after years of being let down by the sound of expensive devices with a really wild schematic, and hearing unbelivebly good sound from devices with at best a mediocre looking schematic.

The first amp which blew me away with its sound quality in its day was the Otala/Lohstroh amp. The second was the German made, model Mega 1 (its frequency response went out to 1 MHz) from a now gone company called LAS (Linear Audio Systems), in 1979, which had a deceptively simple schematic, in many ways an opposite to the Otala/Lohstroh amp. But it had a wonderful sound, and I'd love to have it as my own. With some Kirksaetter receivers (also a German company, they make only speaker today), the best sounding gear from Germany I ever heard, and some of the best I ever heard period.

The point is, looks, prices, name tags and short presentations can be very deceptive, but my ears will not be fooled by it all. In all honesty, I have never encountered live any FM Acoustics product, although I have been aware of them for many years.
 
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