If one's thing is 'perfect' frequency and phase response then my approach would be to use DSP, preferably off-line. IOW, create versions of the albums which perfectly "marry" with the system being used, to give ruler flat response; next best step is using something like a DEQX to do the same during replay.
I've never worried about response curves, the faults that irritate me can't be fixed with that approach. I've heard DEQX processed playback; the bad qualities in the sound, without equalising, are still there after full blown adjustment has been applied.
Pretty amazing statement, Nigel! When I get a system to go invisible that's when it finally really gets its groove happening - I have zero interest in being aware of speaker drivers thrashing away, trying to pretend they're projecting music into the room. Although, possibly the speakers you speak of are the ones that are terribly polite, can't deliver decent SPLs; I would always require the ability to go cleanly to deafening levels; this is a key marker that the system will be able to produce convincing, realistic sound.
It is a warning and says you are entitled to find them boring. Truly invisible speakers are rare. The SMGa are not at all boring and 90% invisible on axis. Quad 63's can be. The cloth is no small problem. Safety then becomes an issue. The way the Quads roll off is a choice of the company as in truth they rise at HF and would sound shrill . I wish they had given us the choice. It saved a bit of money I guess also. The way they shimmy when a bass note says they are not happy. When the wind blows they move. Remarkable they work at all.
Harbeth are to many invisible. I find them ultra boring. Top model not so. My old Dynaco's are like book ends with them. Harbeth boring and straight, Dynaco's almost as boring and wobbly. My A25's cost $40 the Harbeth's $2200 that I have in mind.
Joachim's speakers if he doesn't mind me saying are not invisible ( not far from it ) . They are more like real music and I forget very quickly they are what I am listening to. He fools me by making them look very ordinary. Sorry Joachim and you said why before.
Harbeth are to many invisible. I find them ultra boring. Top model not so. My old Dynaco's are like book ends with them. Harbeth boring and straight, Dynaco's almost as boring and wobbly. My A25's cost $40 the Harbeth's $2200 that I have in mind.
Joachim's speakers if he doesn't mind me saying are not invisible ( not far from it ) . They are more like real music and I forget very quickly they are what I am listening to. He fools me by making them look very ordinary. Sorry Joachim and you said why before.
Frank. Also . Seek things where you least expect to find them. As I repaired things they found me and I learned things I never would. My shop unlike most encouraged repairs. We never made money but made friends that way. The learning was passive and worth a fortune.
I learned that accepted wisdom was far from the truth. The local orchestra practiced in the old fire station 100 yards up the road. Low cost real music was always on tap.
There is a very weird sound that unamplifed music makes. It is phase shift as my best guess. It is very rare you hear it via hi fi. That's the real invisible. Most recording engineers reject it as it is unlike the competitors sound. That means we are sunk before we begin. Rock music is OK. It is what it is. As soon as more than 2 microphones used the disaster is starting. OK two is very hard. What can be done is arrange the players to suit. It is not ideal but sounds great.
I learned that accepted wisdom was far from the truth. The local orchestra practiced in the old fire station 100 yards up the road. Low cost real music was always on tap.
There is a very weird sound that unamplifed music makes. It is phase shift as my best guess. It is very rare you hear it via hi fi. That's the real invisible. Most recording engineers reject it as it is unlike the competitors sound. That means we are sunk before we begin. Rock music is OK. It is what it is. As soon as more than 2 microphones used the disaster is starting. OK two is very hard. What can be done is arrange the players to suit. It is not ideal but sounds great.
That "very weird sound that unamplifed music makes" is what I chase. And, personally I do find it on the recordings, even with rock music! The latter recordings can be the most satisfying of all to get to reproduce well, because they often have massive soundstages, and layering of effects which take one to another place; in many ways far more interesting acoustically than even orchestral recordings.
The late Richard Hay showed me weird realiity on Die Fledermaus DGG via his Radford TriStar 90's. He took the trouble to show the DGG engineers who said very interesting as they had not heard it themselves via the studio monitoring. " This is not a DGG sound". Richard said that is the problem in hi fi. People do not seek a real sound, they seek their own style of sound. The sound in particular was the space the players were in. You could hear things moving. It was so realistic. The Nytech was a very "me" product. As simple as possible with OK specs. Richard measured both voltage and current waveforms. He said they tell very different stories. Nytech was designed for a tobacco company who thought B&O was their target. Rather than argue Richard did what they asked and did it a bit better than required. They lost interest but had paid the development cost. Nytech were always the best and yet the worst. The reputation never really grew. Out off Radford is the intriguing part.
Dejan. The 17 dB feedback on your amp is very interesting. If you reduced the VAS degeneration and relaxed the feedback loop you might slightly win more than you loose. I suspect the already good stability will be aided. The lack focus is totally the point. Each amp has an optimum gain which I doubt is ever found. By each amp I mean each amp as presented as a product to buy.
It's not such a bad idea. Ideal heater temp is about > 960 < 1100 K typical. At 960K you can get cathode poisoning. I have read that switching off the heater and keeping the HT at maximum can work. I hope someone knows as this is a great idea. Perhaps a soft start required with a NE555, it will take 400 mA at a pinch if pin 3 and 7 used together. 300 mA or 150 mA ECC83. At 12.6V 150 mA 3+7 used the loss should be about 0.3V.
Haven't heard of that model, but I have Connoisseur BD-2 found at a rummage sale years ago. It still works. I learned how to adapt a large rubber washer from the hardware store to serve as a motor suspension to replace the original that falls apart after some time. At first they actually used rubber bands for the suspension, but later changed to a purpose made rubber piece that still failed.
The rubber bands worked well. At my shop I built the BD1 kits for nothing in my spare time. It was a way for people to have a good turntable for little money. When I asked Roy Gandy of Rega his opinion he said Connoisseur's only mistake was not asking outside suppliers to make some parts. Rega equipped a glass merchant to cut out platters. Roy said even if he rejected 75% it would be cheaper than an engineering company doing it. A 78 record is a cheap way to make the 10 inch platter wider.
Yes, years ago I had some nice wood bases made up, and built complete phono units for customers with BD-1 kits, Grace 707 tone arms, and Shure V15IIIG (spherical) cartridges. They looked great and worked well.
Yes, their SAU2 tone arm (with the 45 degree pivots) worked pretty well. I've seen much more expensive arms have a lot more bearing friction. It seemed reasonably low in resonances, too.
Do not be sorry, be happy.
Never in my life have I been so disappointed with any speaker as I was with that one. Everything is nice, except that you ask yourself - where the hell is the bass? It is, after all, a nice 30 cm/12" bass driver, and the speaker is not small at all, not gigantic, but reasonably big.
It does play the bass notes of course, but they seem to be far away, and thus reduced in punch and kick.
At first, I thought it might be the amplifier, since these speakers are known to be an extremely difficult load to drive, so we (a friend and I) tried to change amps, but to no avail. We even borrowed a Levinson, but still no general change.
All in all, a tremendous disappointment, after all I had heard about it.
Last edited:
You must be joking, Frank.
I am to rework my entire collection of LPs and CDs to suit a speaker?
My answer to that is - bugger the speaker which requires that to sound natural.
I see. So, writining a deragotary paragraph is all right, and is an expression of wahtever but nice in any case, and responding to it all bad.
A very strange concept, I must say, since I was not offered one iota of proof for what I was told, just a general comment that I am old fashoned. I was NOT told why was that bad, wrong, or whatever.
By way of comparison, I'd say the that old 6550 was spot on, while the newer and more powerful model 680 was slightly off.
I did consider fiddling with it, but eventually decided not to. I don't like changing somebody's work, it seems a bit disrespectful of Richard Miller, who is said to have headed that team (don't know if that's true or not). It is supremely stable, I used it to drive some nasty speakers, but it came out of it smelling of roses. I would not want to lose that.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.