Cool, and you can call me Bob (it's in my sig - real name). ...dvv ... David? ... Devon?
Actually, Bob, it's Dejan V. Veselinović.
Pronounced as Day-un V. Veselinowich. The middle V, is there for the locally customary reference to my late father's name, which was Velimir.
Loosely "translated" into English, it would probably be Daniel V. Joyson.
For obvious reasons, you don't want a hot potato in your mouth, nor do you want to type a lot, so DVV, as my initials, seem like a good solution. I'm as pure Serbian as you'll ever get, 50% Bosnian Serb by my mother, and 25% East Serbian and 25% pure Austrian from my father's side. On my grandmother's side, who was Vienese for 7 centuries back, I also have some Czech and Slovakian blood, but not nearly enough to call Pavel Macura (PMA here) a countryman.
I'm 61 years old, and feeling like I've just began at 24.
Yet, my son is 28 years old.
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Silly question. I'd be proud to go to any pub with you, and please do consider this as an advance invitaton. Everything is in advance mode until my feet are on Heathrow ground.
BTW, I sort of miss my old favorite plane of yesteryear and my favorite air company of yesteryear, Hawker-Siddley Trident and BEA. The three of us have dome around 500,000 miles together over the years, since 1964.
Right Dajan it is. I was told but thought I shouldn't use it ( someone wrote to me). Dan suits you. My almost adapted son is Dan. Dan with no influence from me is going to train in sound engineering ( 17) . His miserable bar-lamb father bought him the course. He is a great musician and I will help him plenty if he asks. There is a God you know when things like this happen. His dad knows zero about me. Ditto age of us and my son Chris. He is a computer engineer. Not programing, actual building. He is giving it up to do PAT testing ( certificate for equipment safety).
I got that and me more more private than anyone.
Trident you twit. Me also . 707 out Trident in. 1966 to Paris.
You know Dan I recon you are as English as me. It's a state of mind. People who live in the USA usually are able to be that. Someone said if we were invaded from outside Earth , suddenly Earth would be home.
Nigel and Dejan; I like what you say.
I'm French myself, originally from Quebec, near Montreal, with Irish and Indian blood.
I now live on an island, for the last twenty years.
My real name is Robert Charron, ...Bob's good, it's shorter.
My background is in the arts (music, sound, paintings, photography, cinema, movies, light, ...), and I've been in touch with the wilderness for the major part of my life (reforestation).
Audio has been one of my passions since I was born (almost 60 years ago). ...Say it started when I was about six or seven with my first transistor AM radio.
I'm very casual in my experimentation of interest during my personal 'sound' journey.
...From Mono to Stereo to three-channel stereo to multichannel surround sound.
I am now reading about Dolby Atmos, and others, some discrete multi-x-channel systems from all around the world and using a multitude of speakers.
And high definition picture (4K) is also on my agenda. ...Plus holography, (three-dimensional moving pictures).
Philosophy is one of my top subjects. I also play music and write.
I'm for peace of our planet and all the people living on it.
One of my other pastimes is conception in a materialistic and spiritual formulation, visually, auditory, and securely.
...And of course I am an avid reader of all audio related matters. ...But very casually, and for a very long time.
Now I'm here with you guys, and exchanging...
I'm French myself, originally from Quebec, near Montreal, with Irish and Indian blood.
I now live on an island, for the last twenty years.
My real name is Robert Charron, ...Bob's good, it's shorter.
My background is in the arts (music, sound, paintings, photography, cinema, movies, light, ...), and I've been in touch with the wilderness for the major part of my life (reforestation).
Audio has been one of my passions since I was born (almost 60 years ago). ...Say it started when I was about six or seven with my first transistor AM radio.
I'm very casual in my experimentation of interest during my personal 'sound' journey.
...From Mono to Stereo to three-channel stereo to multichannel surround sound.
I am now reading about Dolby Atmos, and others, some discrete multi-x-channel systems from all around the world and using a multitude of speakers.
And high definition picture (4K) is also on my agenda. ...Plus holography, (three-dimensional moving pictures).
Philosophy is one of my top subjects. I also play music and write.
I'm for peace of our planet and all the people living on it.
One of my other pastimes is conception in a materialistic and spiritual formulation, visually, auditory, and securely.
...And of course I am an avid reader of all audio related matters. ...But very casually, and for a very long time.
Now I'm here with you guys, and exchanging...
Jcx, this is what I hate when it comes to criticism. Here is Richard Marsh, who has worked both in a physics lab LLL, for decades, and equally a contributor to audio design for decades as well. He HAS made breakthroughs in audio design, and changed our direction from the usual. What have YOU done?
Now, both Richard and I are retired or semi-retired from industry, and we just want to help others with what we have found, as well as learning a new thing or two each day. To 'threaten' Richard by disparaging his professional reputation is over the line. We do not give into pressure like this.
Now, both Richard and I are retired or semi-retired from industry, and we just want to help others with what we have found, as well as learning a new thing or two each day. To 'threaten' Richard by disparaging his professional reputation is over the line. We do not give into pressure like this.
Sorry to hog. That's spooky Robert. Ditto everything including the AM radio.
My blood is a mix. Irish, Jewish, Italian and whatever. Age also and we are the luckiest guys who every lived as we saw the world when it was real. I remember the Beetles coming. I remember no man in space and no satellite. I remember the Cuban missile crisis and B48's flying from nearby Upper Heyford day and night. I remember seeing Secam TV in France with 819 lines and knew it was special. I was told by a French lady I was so lucky to see the modern world beginning in France. She was right and more old fashioned now. An Indian summer for France.
I don't speak good French but get by. I was on a train speaking with a guy from Quebec. A native French speaker said to me " you seemed to understand"? Her, not a word. I said "that's easy, he speaks French with American thoughts" forgive that but compared with France it is true. I do not understand Parisian French. It is not the words, it is just what they say. I watched Dallas in French. Not one bit of it is how it was. From this the French are isolated and do not understand anything. Germany not so. The worst of it was J R was laughing a snakes laugh when his lips were sealed. As I watched everyone was sharing their thoughts. I gave up and didn't say it had lost something in translation.
The worse bit in France is I have to teach them their history and I do it as if I was French. That is difficult. Jean d'Arc is a good start. I start by pointing out the distinction between English and French persons was a bit subtle then. On our Passports it say " Honi soit qui maly pense " Which I think translates as " who sees evil in this shame on him " or evil be to whom evil thinks . I flash that and say as we spoke French then and what does it tell you. Usually they say they weren't taught this at school. In Belgium they would.
My blood is a mix. Irish, Jewish, Italian and whatever. Age also and we are the luckiest guys who every lived as we saw the world when it was real. I remember the Beetles coming. I remember no man in space and no satellite. I remember the Cuban missile crisis and B48's flying from nearby Upper Heyford day and night. I remember seeing Secam TV in France with 819 lines and knew it was special. I was told by a French lady I was so lucky to see the modern world beginning in France. She was right and more old fashioned now. An Indian summer for France.
I don't speak good French but get by. I was on a train speaking with a guy from Quebec. A native French speaker said to me " you seemed to understand"? Her, not a word. I said "that's easy, he speaks French with American thoughts" forgive that but compared with France it is true. I do not understand Parisian French. It is not the words, it is just what they say. I watched Dallas in French. Not one bit of it is how it was. From this the French are isolated and do not understand anything. Germany not so. The worst of it was J R was laughing a snakes laugh when his lips were sealed. As I watched everyone was sharing their thoughts. I gave up and didn't say it had lost something in translation.
The worse bit in France is I have to teach them their history and I do it as if I was French. That is difficult. Jean d'Arc is a good start. I start by pointing out the distinction between English and French persons was a bit subtle then. On our Passports it say " Honi soit qui maly pense " Which I think translates as " who sees evil in this shame on him " or evil be to whom evil thinks . I flash that and say as we spoke French then and what does it tell you. Usually they say they weren't taught this at school. In Belgium they would.
As a foot note:
Data mining and sophisicated filtering, staticical analysis, normalizing et al is fairly new but producing a lot of new data that would not be easily apparent. When a drug fails after the DBt trials, there is often a search for an explanation. Audio has not done that where DBt has shown to fail. So we have no explanations for the gap in results.
As was shown how the brain handles visual and plays tricks all the time..... a lot has to do with repeated visuals and replacing what is assumed or expected from past experiences (and which are not actually there in the outside/real world). we can learn a lot of similar affect with sound if you want to staudy and try some of the things here: Find Diana Deutsch's 'Illusions and Research' -
www.dianaDeutsch.ucsd.edu/psychology/pages.php?i=201
Or just Google Diana Deutsch and ready EveryThing listed about sound and the mind.
Thx- RNMarsh
Data mining and sophisicated filtering, staticical analysis, normalizing et al is fairly new but producing a lot of new data that would not be easily apparent. When a drug fails after the DBt trials, there is often a search for an explanation. Audio has not done that where DBt has shown to fail. So we have no explanations for the gap in results.
As was shown how the brain handles visual and plays tricks all the time..... a lot has to do with repeated visuals and replacing what is assumed or expected from past experiences (and which are not actually there in the outside/real world). we can learn a lot of similar affect with sound if you want to staudy and try some of the things here: Find Diana Deutsch's 'Illusions and Research' -
www.dianaDeutsch.ucsd.edu/psychology/pages.php?i=201
Or just Google Diana Deutsch and ready EveryThing listed about sound and the mind.
Thx- RNMarsh
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Thanks again you are a source of good information . I might add without the snarky comment as from the self anointed experts found around here.
Both Richard and John. ...The writings are on the tablets of the Internet, for million years to come ...
If it were that simple. I would not dispense with the initial testing done to NIH and FDA standards. They do work to keep lethal drugs and quackery out of the market. The medical field has lots of examples of treatments that were thought to be amazing and eventually turned out to not work and even put the patients at major risk. Frontal lobotomy anyone? Some still persist because the patients think they work.
Another example of analysis versus perception: Cell phones are thought by some to be really dangerous and cause brain cancer. My sister called me about this worried about the possibilities. I pointed out to her (A biomedical researcher) that at this stage its really easy to see if its an issue. Cell phones did not exist in the 1980's. The uptake has been very fast and they are now really common. Given a large population, if they did cause brain cancer it would be obvious in the collected statistics with a sudden rise in the incidence. It seems that rise does not exist. Its it right to be careful? Of course. But the reality check is there.
You are describing "crowdsourced" answers and with certain controls they can be useful. But they can be completely meaningless and even wrong. That same crowdsourced model used in the US says that the Earth is 6000 years old and 1/4 of the population think the sun revolves around the Earth.
Designing a test that can yield meaningful statistical results is very difficult. Correlation does not imply causation. Its much harder when the population queried is not controlled and is responsive to each other in uncontrolled ways. Looking at a lot of uncontrolled input can easily lead to an incorrect conclusion. A classic example is the story that gold aluminium screens for the Quad ESL sound warmer than the "black" screens. Can I infer from that the gold anodize has a different effect on the aluminium and somehow causes it to sound warmer? Or is in an effect from the visuals impacting the audio perception?
Inferring from a large audience would lead to acceptance of MP3 or AAC as being more than transparent enough for any audio experience. There has been a lot of controlled testing of codecs using subjective results with a lot learned about what matters. They have even set standards for the listening space, the test paradigms etc. Its really involved.
I saw a lecture on the subject at Dolby labs some time back and was really impressed at how thorough and meticulous they are. However there is real money riding on the results so everyone is careful and has a real budget for testing. This gives a real insight into the process: https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3339.pdf Its also an example of serious professional ABX testing done with real meaningful goals (not the mine is better than yours nonsense). And they did find differences in the codecs with different strengths in different codecs. Read the conclusions to see a rational approach to analyzing this type of data.
I would like to see this type of testing on the issues we run into but its exceptionally hard to do. You really need all of the hardware except the speakers in another room and a listening room that is quiet enough and otherwise benign enough to not impose a lot on the sounds you are evaluating. And a number of test subjects so you get a cross section of responses.
I believe I hear differences and I want to believe I can attribute those differences to particular things I have done to improve the audio but I could never go beyond saying they are my feelings and only those.
Otherwise be happy with what makes you happy and if its metal sculpture and bling have at it. Please don't expect me to have the same reaction.
________________________________________
Simple?...... I'm sorry if you think I made it seem simple as it is hardly that. A good DBT is very hard to do well. And, then it still can be wrong and very often they are. Audio will be no exception. That is the first point.
Crowd sourced answeres can be wrong also, of course. But i trust those who do such meta-data analysis are not fools, either, and will put in just as much work into doing them well to get the best data/results. Often the DBT data results and the larger scale meta-data results do Not show the same data results. That is a point.
The DBT comes first. The larger scale tests over longer time come afterwards. IMO the later results will be more accurate. That is a point.
I'll leave it to you to fight over the details.
THx-RNMarsh
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Demian;
We keep learning...... jumping to conclusions that seem like popular myth busting may be just as bad as pop opinion...... See - JAMA 2011 "Effects of Cell Phone Radiofrequency Signal Exposure on Brain Glucose Metabolism"
sites.bu.edu/ombs/2011/03/01/this-is-your-brain-on-rf-emf/
THx-RNMarsh
We keep learning...... jumping to conclusions that seem like popular myth busting may be just as bad as pop opinion...... See - JAMA 2011 "Effects of Cell Phone Radiofrequency Signal Exposure on Brain Glucose Metabolism"
sites.bu.edu/ombs/2011/03/01/this-is-your-brain-on-rf-emf/
THx-RNMarsh
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No doubt that England has affected me profoundly, with a long fuse. I mean, I picked up more there than I was even aware of at the time, it took years to mature and show up. I suppose that's normal.
For example, when I was building my car from the ground up, I think I mixed in more Cosworth logic than any other. I wasn't after the most powerful engine I could come up with, rather I went after an overall balance and mostly after driveability. Power without control kills fast, Others may not agree, but historically, if anyone invented tuning, that would be the Brits. Simple logic - if you want to learn, learn from the best.
And as Americans like to say, and I believe are right in saying, home is where you hang your hat. If I were to live anywhere else outside of Serbia, that would be the UK. I have buried long ago the usual stereotypes of Brits, finding them to be inaccurate and often downright wrong. But then, most stereotypes are.
Richard, I do hope my comment a while back on the junk op amps found in many new Marantz products have not put you off your own research?
I'd be sad to hear that if it did. My intention was exactly the opposite, to let you know that this particular problem has been around for quite some time, some solutions turned up, but all told that you are on the right track.
Go for it.
I'd be sad to hear that if it did. My intention was exactly the opposite, to let you know that this particular problem has been around for quite some time, some solutions turned up, but all told that you are on the right track.
Go for it.
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Funny thing is urban myths seem to need very little to debunk them . I was talking to a NASA security guy and asked the obvious " Did you go to the Moon". His answer was simple . " Do you think the Soviets could resit saying if we hadn't " ? I asked about the Van Allen belt and he said not a place to hang around in , at 25 000 MPH you clear it quickly was his answer. Then to my question why weren't they killed by Sunspot activity he said " You know we expected them all to die and we were going regardless . We got lucky as the Sun was quiet and now we are too frightened". His final word was they all had faced greater danger testing early supersonic aircraft. The Sunspot answer left me slightly unconvinced.
On another thread I am trying to design the ultimate low cost 1920's style amp. I have with very little regard as to practicality looked at EF184 TV pentode driving Russian 6A7S double power triode (a bargain and indirectly heated at 6.3VAC). The interesting thing is this seems not to have occurred to anyone. It's 2A3 and 6SN7 and forget it. The valve world is very tight thinking . The idea is that the EF184 can run plenty of current to drive the output and not require active loads or another stage. If made triode it strongly resembles an ECC81. This allows so called plate to plate feedback( shunt). The g2 grid of EF184 can be made to give other distortion options that sound more correct ( Hiraga style exponential decay). If the input pentode is not at full power this will maintain for a long time. Interestingly setting correct harmonics at near clipping forces it to be only second harmonic at lower power. This is bad news but at a level below audibility. It is valve prejudice marketing paradise and is also allowable in terms of understood science of hearing. Win win. Power output would be three watts per channel if being mean. I need the full six if using my OB speakers. Now if 4 tube pairs were used it gets interesting as Rp is about 70R.
The triode plate resistance is 280 R which is very low. It suggests a very simple transformer could be used . Dissipation is about 13 watts per section so a bit like a EL 34 triode if using both in parallel.
To me this is a design exercise and the distortion is fine if below 1% Hiraga style.
My recent tube amp had < - 63 dB THD at 1.6W with no loop feedback. I rejected this as it suffered near clipping. It drives Quad ESL 63's very loud as every drop of power can be used. At 1 watt the combined THD for the system is 0.3% and all second harmonic. I would bet 95% of people reading this have 1 to % 5 THD typical with amplifiers at -100 dB 1 watt.
I still mostly dislike valve amps. I find the unexplored possibilities interesting. I hate the heat, the smell, the swooning over them and most often the sound . The sound sometimes is more fluid than most transistor amps. If that is some kind of distortion then unamplified real music better pull it's socks up. I do sometimes find real unamplifed music a bit coloured. That's not me being ironic, I do.
The triode plate resistance is 280 R which is very low. It suggests a very simple transformer could be used . Dissipation is about 13 watts per section so a bit like a EL 34 triode if using both in parallel.
To me this is a design exercise and the distortion is fine if below 1% Hiraga style.
My recent tube amp had < - 63 dB THD at 1.6W with no loop feedback. I rejected this as it suffered near clipping. It drives Quad ESL 63's very loud as every drop of power can be used. At 1 watt the combined THD for the system is 0.3% and all second harmonic. I would bet 95% of people reading this have 1 to % 5 THD typical with amplifiers at -100 dB 1 watt.
I still mostly dislike valve amps. I find the unexplored possibilities interesting. I hate the heat, the smell, the swooning over them and most often the sound . The sound sometimes is more fluid than most transistor amps. If that is some kind of distortion then unamplified real music better pull it's socks up. I do sometimes find real unamplifed music a bit coloured. That's not me being ironic, I do.
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