Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th June 2012, 02:14 AM   #6081
SY is offline SY  United States
On Hiatus
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Where you get that idea is beyond me.
__________________
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2012, 02:53 AM   #6082
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
Designer & Technologist
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Unfortunately, Wavebourn, he doesn't respect us after having a 'terrific time with both of us'. So typical. '-)
Probably his image in your monitor does not respect us. In my monitor he is nice and fluffy.
__________________
Nothing in the universe is perfect. The ideal things are the ones that are most optimal. Optimization criteria, what matters. When I hear "No Compromise Design", I want to take a sledgehammer and test how impact-proof it is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2012, 06:55 AM   #6083
SY is offline SY  United States
On Hiatus
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Probably his image in your monitor does not respect us. In my monitor he is nice and fluffy.
Binky (polar bear) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grrrrr!
__________________
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2012, 03:33 PM   #6084
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  England
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by popilin View Post
Not in the Lab, in the kitchen, in an oversight of mine, he ate a couple of ceramic capacitors, a piezoelectric resonator, a piece of PCB, some plastic ...

I'm home alone, when my wife returned, she would kill me !

Plan B: go to the workshop, bring another remote, when she used, I will tell as I tell my clients, I'll check on Monday.
I hope Pepe the parrot says nothing.
I do not think she notices the difference.

If you do not see me anymore around here... she noticed the difference.
Just on the dog thing for a moment..I spent 2 days building a preamp on some fiberglass vero board...went out to get some more components...when I came back it was gone?????

Then I found it with a half eaten ceramic tea pot behind a chair...the dog had chewed it up, broken the board and I had to search for some time to find some missing pieces....It still begs the question why does a tea pot looks like and tastes like food with a circuit board sandwich? Teeth marks into the electrolytics....Only ever happened once I put the parts in a box now..LOL

Return to topic..

Regards
M. Gregg
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2012, 05:25 PM   #6085
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
Sin Bin
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
Just on the dog thing for a moment..I spent 2 days building a preamp on some fiberglass vero board...went out to get some more components...when I came back it was gone?????

Then I found it with a half eaten ceramic tea pot behind a chair...the dog had chewed it up, broken the board and I had to search for some time to find some missing pieces....It still begs the question why does a tea pot looks like and tastes like food with a circuit board sandwich? Teeth marks into the electrolytics....Only ever happened once I put the parts in a box now..LOL

Return to topic..

Regards
M. Gregg
Some dogs are evil , insecure or both .... Looks like you spend too much time with your Vero board and of course you drink too much tea...





Now, why was Rio left off the national Squad ... ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2012, 06:41 PM   #6086
JZatopa is offline JZatopa  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago
I'm curious, could someone give me an example where they made a change to a component which improved the sound and they were unable to measure any change? Half of audio enthusiasts like to say you can't measure everything in audio. If unmeasurable changes are so prevalent in audio then it should be easy to find examples where 2 components, using the same design but different parts measure identically in every way yet sound different.

Our ears are some of the most sensitive tools we have, unfortunately the data it gives us can be obfuscated by our mind's drive to meet other needs. That doesn't mean that they aren't an useful tool.

I have not heard an audio system that measured very well and sounded bad. I have heard systems that measured bad that sounded good. That means 2 things. One, maybe we are measuring the wrong things or looking at the wrong measurements to make our judgements. Two, Maybe we are interpreting the data incorrectly.

The truth is that both objective and subjective experiences can be true and bridged, most audiophiles and engineers don't want this to happen for reasons that have nothing to do with audio. It is a shame really as this rift is what has stunted hi-fi development. The more we as a community can bridge that gap, the more we can show that there is real science behind "true" high end audio and it's not a bunch of snake oil being sold to people with more money then sense.
__________________
Knowledge is Power & Applied Knowledge is Freedom,
There is no higher religion than truth
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2012, 06:45 PM   #6087
SY is offline SY  United States
On Hiatus
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJNUBZ View Post
That means 2 things. One, maybe we are measuring the wrong things or looking at the wrong measurements to make our judgements. Two, Maybe we are interpreting the data incorrectly.
Or three, we can measure things that are actually important (e.g., distortion, phase, frequency response) much more precisely than our ears can distinguish. I'm admittedly one of those crusty reactionaries who believe that good and comprehensive measurements are vital to a designer and fairly meaningless to a consumer.
__________________
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2012, 06:49 PM   #6088
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
Designer & Technologist
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
DJNUBS;

when making changes to improve it is a totally different story. When I improve something I can't measure directly I construct an experiment that pushes the effect beyond normal conditions, so it is well measurable, then extrapolate.
The different story is, when people try to invent some generalized measurements to test _all_ available topologies for sound quality. It is impossible because number of errors can be enormous compared to number of standard measurements. It is even hard to invent standard tests for most common opamp topology to predict how one amp should better sound than other.
__________________
Nothing in the universe is perfect. The ideal things are the ones that are most optimal. Optimization criteria, what matters. When I hear "No Compromise Design", I want to take a sledgehammer and test how impact-proof it is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2012, 06:51 PM   #6089
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
Designer & Technologist
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
I'm admittedly one of those crusty reactionaries who believe that good and comprehensive measurements are vital to a designer and fairly meaningless to a consumer.
Count me too. And add great number of real _designers_ who know what they design.
__________________
Nothing in the universe is perfect. The ideal things are the ones that are most optimal. Optimization criteria, what matters. When I hear "No Compromise Design", I want to take a sledgehammer and test how impact-proof it is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2012, 06:53 PM   #6090
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oakmont PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJNUBZ View Post
I'm curious, could someone give me an example where they made a change to a component which improved the sound and they were unable to measure any change?
Yes, I have a test switch for A/B/X x 3 comparisons and everyone can spot position #1 no matter what it is switching. I have not been able to measure what is the exact difference in that position as compared to the others.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Sound Quality Vs. MeasurementsHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quality Control differences = variations in sound quality? KT Class D 3 4th June 2014 12:02 AM
Sound Card for Measurements Marik Solid State 2 2nd January 2012 08:59 PM
Sound Card Recommendations (For Audio Measurements) dchisholm Equipment & Tools 5 16th July 2011 09:40 AM
How to protect sound card during amp measurements? okapi Everything Else 13 2nd September 2008 03:06 PM
Sound cards - test and measurements jackinnj Everything Else 2 5th July 2003 03:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:17 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki