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Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:40 AM   #5941
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
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Sound Quality Vs. Measurements
Was it heard like intermodulation of signal harmonics with sample frequency?
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Old 1st June 2012, 04:16 PM   #5942
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spladski View Post
1Khz square wave
Without checking for mis-behavior of anything in the signal chain to the un-bandlimited input it is not a fair test.

I've done the test with music and have heard nothing, there was also a carefully conducted test reported in the AES journal that returned a null result (with music).
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Old 1st June 2012, 04:27 PM   #5943
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
Without checking for mis-behavior of anything in the signal chain to the un-bandlimited input it is not a fair test.

I've done the test with music and have heard nothing, there was also a carefully conducted test reported in the AES journal that returned a null result (with music).
With music according to my experience each improvement adds clarity, and with fixing some errors other errors became dominant, and so on, until wife says, "What are you fixing? It is already perfect!" But later she hears ordinary hi-fi and understands the difference. So when you listen through ordinary hi-fi you may not hear the difference. It is not like better system highlights errors, no. It is more like appetite comes during the lunch. When it is ordinaty, you compare it with other systems. When it is real high-end, you compare with real sounds.
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Old 1st June 2012, 04:28 PM   #5944
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Scott,

AP's latest newsletter was a tutorial on square waves and DSP. Should be on their site for the curious.

Now what has been pointed out is that if you listen to electronic music that does use square wave tones, then there just might be an actual difference!
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Old 1st June 2012, 05:35 PM   #5945
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
Scott,

AP's latest newsletter was a tutorial on square waves and DSP. Should be on their site for the curious.

Now what has been pointed out is that if you listen to electronic music that does use square wave tones, then there just might be an actual difference!
At UCLA the budget-strapped electronic music studio purchased consumer Dolby B noise reduction boxes from, iirc, Teac.

The designers had saved a little BOM cost by doing the level detection with half-wave rectifiers. As a result the treatment of asymmetrical waveforms, found in profusion from the Moog and Buchla synthesizers, was decidedly pathological, with one polarity of sawtooth having almost no effect up to a rather high threshold, and the other working as anticipated .

I worked with Chris Shelton, a physicist and amateur musician who had gotten studio access to devise a fix, one moreover that was merely adding on to the stock circuitry and requiring no surgery to the existing boards, in a feeble attempt to preserve warranties. It worked fine, but the very cheap interconnection system was good for about one cycle, and as a result of having boards in and out a few times the units became very unreliable, ruining mixdowns at crucial moments. A disaster.
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Old 1st June 2012, 05:56 PM   #5946
john curl is offline john curl  United States
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I agree with you, Wavebourn. It would appear that only serious, 'full time' audio designers can truly appreciate the sonic changes that come with trying new approaches and finding what the 'improvements' actually do for audio reproduction.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:11 PM   #5947
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Then who would be buying the stuff?
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:15 PM   #5948
john curl is offline john curl  United States
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Not amateur audio engineers.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:19 PM   #5949
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
It would appear that only serious, 'full time' audio designers can truly appreciate the sonic changes that come with trying new approaches and finding what the 'improvements' actually do for audio reproduction.
Yes, the rest of us will just stare at our shoes and drool.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:28 PM   #5950
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
With music according to my experience each improvement adds clarity, and with fixing some errors other errors became dominant, and so on, until wife says, "What are you fixing? It is already perfect!" But later she hears ordinary hi-fi and understands the difference. So when you listen through ordinary hi-fi you may not hear the difference. It is not like better system highlights errors, no. It is more like appetite comes during the lunch. When it is ordinaty, you compare it with other systems. When it is real high-end, you compare with real sounds.
That's about it.

Just when you think you got the hang of it, you chance upon some other device and realize there's still more work to do because it can be better.

Thankfully, I have a wife who understands and is resigned to:

1. The fact that audio is my life long love, well beyond the realm of reason,

2. Once I have made up my mind about something, there's no stopping me short of shooting me dead.

Fortunately for me, she can't afford to lose her most trustworthy and hard working assistant.

So, by the time I get to the 10th version of something, she just keeps on smiling.
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