BTW, Thorsten, what's the price of your favorite 15" midrange?
And speaking of prices, what was the sales price of big speakers?
Just curious. Mine cost €1,200 to make (sales price was €1,600), but bear in mind that this was in 2003, so today they would probably cost more like €2,000 off hand, and the people who made it were local representatives of Son Audax, meaning they had input driver prices like you and I could never get.
Just wondering.
And speaking of prices, what was the sales price of big speakers?
Just curious. Mine cost €1,200 to make (sales price was €1,600), but bear in mind that this was in 2003, so today they would probably cost more like €2,000 off hand, and the people who made it were local representatives of Son Audax, meaning they had input driver prices like you and I could never get.
Just wondering.
Dejan,
Work - yes. Sleep - no.
I had a one bedroom flat in one of the Krushchovkas (Concrete Plate build multistory tennenment - the eastern block is full of them), so I had a separate 25 square metre living room, small kitchen, bathroom, one storage corner which I made into my sleeping area and the bedroom that I made into my studio.
Sure, no worries. But next time, for fun, try a Volt 10" Bass and a Neotek or Aurum Cantus (or Raal if you have too much money) Ribbon 2-Way... You may change your tune.
Or if you can, just find a 2nd hand pair of "Decca-Volt" Speakers from Wilmslow Audio...
Ciao T
Work - yes. Sleep - no.
I had a one bedroom flat in one of the Krushchovkas (Concrete Plate build multistory tennenment - the eastern block is full of them), so I had a separate 25 square metre living room, small kitchen, bathroom, one storage corner which I made into my sleeping area and the bedroom that I made into my studio.
So, since neither one of us is going to budge over this, we'd best call it a day. We agree not to agree.
Sure, no worries. But next time, for fun, try a Volt 10" Bass and a Neotek or Aurum Cantus (or Raal if you have too much money) Ribbon 2-Way... You may change your tune.
Or if you can, just find a 2nd hand pair of "Decca-Volt" Speakers from Wilmslow Audio...
Ciao T
Hi,
I am unsure what phenomena you describe?
With "harmonic noise" do you mean distortion in the traditional sense? Or something else? The fact that you reference ports would suggest you mean perhaps standing waves in the Box? These have solutions.
Ciao T
I am unsure what phenomena you describe?
With "harmonic noise" do you mean distortion in the traditional sense? Or something else? The fact that you reference ports would suggest you mean perhaps standing waves in the Box? These have solutions.
Ciao T
Hi,
JBL E130 from US Speaker - JBL E130 lead guitar 15" speaker. JBL E Series and JBL professional speaker components
The JBL E130 is long discontinued, the link above shows around 300 USD/pcs retail. Note, this would not do appreciable bass, unless used in a suitable rear horn.
For a 15" to buy now in a passive "HiFi" 2-Way application I'd probably get the Beyma 15B100:
Beyma Speakers - Beyma 15B100R speaker - Beyma 15B100R 300 watt 15" woofer for all hi-fi and studio monitor bass speakers. Beyma 15B100R and other Beyma 15" speakers here.
If I get these and a pair of the Magnetostat Horns and components for the 1st order 600Hz crossover at really horrorshow quality (e.g. foil inductors and Film/Foil Capacitors) I think the retail cost for all these would be around 1,600 USD. Box needs to be added.
Incidentally, with a 200 Liter vented box (big but not excessive) you get around 96dB/2.83V/1m and a -3dB point of around 33Hz and 24Hz -10dB... The HF unit from the diyhifisupply crescendo goes up to 25KHz BTW.
Personally, I have a pair of Eminence Omega Pro 15 sitting around, so I'll probably use these and I will activate them, so I can match the efficiency of the HF driver and use a smaller enclosure. With a suitably big Amp (~ 200W @ 8R) I can do a -3dB point of 24Hz and > 109dB/1m above 25Hz in a 100 Liter box tuned to 25Hz. With 600Hz bandwidth even a Class D Amp may work well for this. Then I can use any kind of Amp to drive the system, even the tiniest SET will grow brass balls...
Ciao T
JBL E130 from US Speaker - JBL E130 lead guitar 15" speaker. JBL E Series and JBL professional speaker components
The JBL E130 is long discontinued, the link above shows around 300 USD/pcs retail. Note, this would not do appreciable bass, unless used in a suitable rear horn.
For a 15" to buy now in a passive "HiFi" 2-Way application I'd probably get the Beyma 15B100:
Beyma Speakers - Beyma 15B100R speaker - Beyma 15B100R 300 watt 15" woofer for all hi-fi and studio monitor bass speakers. Beyma 15B100R and other Beyma 15" speakers here.
If I get these and a pair of the Magnetostat Horns and components for the 1st order 600Hz crossover at really horrorshow quality (e.g. foil inductors and Film/Foil Capacitors) I think the retail cost for all these would be around 1,600 USD. Box needs to be added.
Incidentally, with a 200 Liter vented box (big but not excessive) you get around 96dB/2.83V/1m and a -3dB point of around 33Hz and 24Hz -10dB... The HF unit from the diyhifisupply crescendo goes up to 25KHz BTW.
Personally, I have a pair of Eminence Omega Pro 15 sitting around, so I'll probably use these and I will activate them, so I can match the efficiency of the HF driver and use a smaller enclosure. With a suitably big Amp (~ 200W @ 8R) I can do a -3dB point of 24Hz and > 109dB/1m above 25Hz in a 100 Liter box tuned to 25Hz. With 600Hz bandwidth even a Class D Amp may work well for this. Then I can use any kind of Amp to drive the system, even the tiniest SET will grow brass balls...
Ciao T
Nikita Khruschov ordered to build Kommunism before 1980, so every human being in Eastern Block would have everything needed for life, so work will be for fun only. That buildings were the result of such program. Architects calculated what a person needs to be satisfied forever and designed set of flats with different numbers of bedrooms. Such houses were cost effective, buthad small rooms, had poor sound isolation, and many other shortages, so it would be hard to imagine that having such a flat means no more desire for improvement. But people who were not satisfied supposed to have some psychiatric problems, and had to be taken care of.
Hi,
Nice idea, pitty about the implementation.
Well, prior to that flat I lived in an old house with no running water in the flat, communal toilets of the "dry" kind and what was meant to be a single flat split between several families, improvised kitchen etc (real bad - in the west one would have considered this "slum") after spells in state orphanages...
This flat in a Krushchovka was a major improvement for me at the time.
But I did have some psychiatric problems anyway...
Ciao T
Nice idea, pitty about the implementation.
That buildings were the result of such program. Architects calculated what a person needs to be satisfied forever and designed set of flats with different numbers of bedrooms. Such houses were cost effective, buthad small rooms, had poor sound isolation, and many other shortages, so it would be hard to imagine that having such a flat means no more desire for improvement. But people who were not satisfied supposed to have some psychiatric problems, and had to be taken care of.
Well, prior to that flat I lived in an old house with no running water in the flat, communal toilets of the "dry" kind and what was meant to be a single flat split between several families, improvised kitchen etc (real bad - in the west one would have considered this "slum") after spells in state orphanages...
This flat in a Krushchovka was a major improvement for me at the time.
But I did have some psychiatric problems anyway...
Ciao T
Hi,
The STASI in East Germany and the KGB in the Motherland took good care of people who the kind of psychiatric problems I had...
Ciao T
Well, medicine was free.
The STASI in East Germany and the KGB in the Motherland took good care of people who the kind of psychiatric problems I had...
Ciao T
Well, people with psychiatric problems were considered as easy targets for propaganda of wrong style of life by foreign secret services. And as the result potential spies, terrorists, or influence agents.
Well, medicine was free.
Free pills and booze, but no food ?
Dang, if only i could have started a junkie travel agency back then.
Well, food was free as well for patients of mental clinics. But no choice of booze, only what prescribed by a doctor.
Well;
liquors were not free. And there was a system to "cure" alcoholics that included forced labour as well. It was run by Internal Affairs ministry (i.e. police department for rehabilitation of alcoholics).
Thorsten, if memory serves, my speakers have an effective (internal, enclosed) volume of around 74 litres, and it's already a bit big for my room.
As for RAAL, don't forget that I am friends with the owner. Your prices do not apply.
Let me illustrate the difference. I am also friends of many years with Milan Karan, who make amps even Wayne would like (1/2/3.6 kilowatts into 8/4/2 Ohms). Let's say you decided to buy his cheapest offering, selling typically for €5,500 around Europe, You tell me, I talk to him, you sit in your car and drive down here, spending around €500 for the trip, and get it for €2,700. Total cost €3,200, you saved €2,200 and had a lot of fun in the middle, the kind money cannot buy - to really see the real sights, you need a local guide, i.e. me.
As for RAAL, don't forget that I am friends with the owner. Your prices do not apply.
Let me illustrate the difference. I am also friends of many years with Milan Karan, who make amps even Wayne would like (1/2/3.6 kilowatts into 8/4/2 Ohms). Let's say you decided to buy his cheapest offering, selling typically for €5,500 around Europe, You tell me, I talk to him, you sit in your car and drive down here, spending around €500 for the trip, and get it for €2,700. Total cost €3,200, you saved €2,200 and had a lot of fun in the middle, the kind money cannot buy - to really see the real sights, you need a local guide, i.e. me.
Lush Shack... didn't the B-52's do that? Oh wait, I'm slurring my words again. Never mind.
Hate to interrupt the nostalgic look back...
I was looking at the spectra of several trumpet recordings. I was surprised by the level of the upper harmonics. Only a few dB down way out to 8th and beyond. So, quite energetic way higher than I imagined. Comparing that to how easy it is to get most tweeters to be very unhappy with less than a watt anywhere near their breakup range, 27K for the Seas I am playing with, 25K for the Paradigms, I can see several things that could lead to issues and maybe be masked more by amps using lower frequency VAS loading Cdom than wider BW amps. One thing telling was the amount of energy being reproduced by the speaker above 22K Hz. Clearly this is 100% distortion as I am sourcing a CD. By way of my DCX I found I could add a 48 dB LP at 20K which did help the edginess and took a big bite out of what I was measuring but the tweeter distortion still was producing enough to be an issue. No easy fix as the Bheringer is not exactly what I call hi-fi. I am sure handy for it's intended use, PA system taming and most handy for crossover development.
The root of the problem would still seem to be the tweeter breakup. So how does this relate to amp design? One could have several preference settings much like you can adjust "sharpness" on a TV. (To be fair, label it "crap" to "superb" speakers). I can see a difference in TrueRTA quick sweep and in MLS. Hark! An objective measure. I am trying to get pictures but it seems the e-mu console has a memory leak and it keeps crashing my system. Nothing is easy.
I was looking at the spectra of several trumpet recordings. I was surprised by the level of the upper harmonics. Only a few dB down way out to 8th and beyond. So, quite energetic way higher than I imagined. Comparing that to how easy it is to get most tweeters to be very unhappy with less than a watt anywhere near their breakup range, 27K for the Seas I am playing with, 25K for the Paradigms, I can see several things that could lead to issues and maybe be masked more by amps using lower frequency VAS loading Cdom than wider BW amps. One thing telling was the amount of energy being reproduced by the speaker above 22K Hz. Clearly this is 100% distortion as I am sourcing a CD. By way of my DCX I found I could add a 48 dB LP at 20K which did help the edginess and took a big bite out of what I was measuring but the tweeter distortion still was producing enough to be an issue. No easy fix as the Bheringer is not exactly what I call hi-fi. I am sure handy for it's intended use, PA system taming and most handy for crossover development.
The root of the problem would still seem to be the tweeter breakup. So how does this relate to amp design? One could have several preference settings much like you can adjust "sharpness" on a TV. (To be fair, label it "crap" to "superb" speakers). I can see a difference in TrueRTA quick sweep and in MLS. Hark! An objective measure. I am trying to get pictures but it seems the e-mu console has a memory leak and it keeps crashing my system. Nothing is easy.
This makes more sense to me as I have never found any of the Hafler amplifiers harsh sounding , exactly the opposite, sluggish and a bit dark , never hard sounding . As suggested before use morel or seas for tweeter and seas for mid/ bass , very cost effective and you will have good performance
Frank,
The question is why different amps seem to have had such a large impact on the sound for a given pair of speakers. In this case, a set of Paradigm studio 20's. To understand this, the kind folks in this forum have helped provide a crash course in amp design and looking at it from a system standpoint. 4000 posts worth! The goal was not just better sound. I can buy that. It is understanding. I have a tremendous amount more to learn but I am on the path. A most intriguing topic. What I have learned has changed the direction of my current and next speaker build.
a.
The 120 is now quite different from original. The change moving the Cdom from VAS loading to TMC was dramatic. The power supply changes and wiring helped quite a bit too. I also have a 220 that looks like it could have the same power supply improvements and a few parts upgrades. It is a totally different topology being symmetrical. I like the modified 120 much better. More detail, but not as much as the HCA 1200. It has one big advantage over the Parasound: It fits on my shelf. So for now it stays in my office where it dos not bother my wife.
The question is why different amps seem to have had such a large impact on the sound for a given pair of speakers. In this case, a set of Paradigm studio 20's. To understand this, the kind folks in this forum have helped provide a crash course in amp design and looking at it from a system standpoint. 4000 posts worth! The goal was not just better sound. I can buy that. It is understanding. I have a tremendous amount more to learn but I am on the path. A most intriguing topic. What I have learned has changed the direction of my current and next speaker build.
a.
The 120 is now quite different from original. The change moving the Cdom from VAS loading to TMC was dramatic. The power supply changes and wiring helped quite a bit too. I also have a 220 that looks like it could have the same power supply improvements and a few parts upgrades. It is a totally different topology being symmetrical. I like the modified 120 much better. More detail, but not as much as the HCA 1200. It has one big advantage over the Parasound: It fits on my shelf. So for now it stays in my office where it dos not bother my wife.
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