Can you imagine 20 years ago somebody asking a police officer on the street: "What time is it now? I forgot my telephone at home." Mental clinic guaranteed.
Except for one small, important detail about pulling the magnetron out of the oven and trying to run it sitting by itself - the extension wire only runs the filament of the magnetron, which is I thnk about 1 or 2 volts. The metal case of the magnetron still needs to be connected to the microwave oven chassis. The filament also happens to be 1000-2500 volts negative in respect to the chassis, making that setup extremely dangerous just from the voltage available to whoever might touch it relative to the microwave oven chassis. Who knows if the lack of ground to the magnetron body was an oversight by someone who doesn't know where the current goes, or intentional by someone trying to keep viewers who might try it from cooking themselves and their friends (at this point, who cares about cooked popcorn an cellphones). Either way, there's deadly high voltage available.
Yes, posting that alleged "how it was done" video was stupid in several ways.
As to the assertion that cell phones cause cancer, I don't believe that claim, but I'm open to some hard evidence, or at least some strong statistical correlation. The comment had neither - it has a conspiracy theory about who funded such research, and a testimonial of ONE death. I would have expected to see executives dying from "cell phone cancer," er, brain tumors at a higher-than-average rate for the last quarter century or more, as well as teenagers likewise dying at a higher rate than previously seen. With all the data mining going on, this sort of thing would get noticed. No doubt many real health problems have already been discovered from such statistics.
Yes, posting that alleged "how it was done" video was stupid in several ways.
As to the assertion that cell phones cause cancer, I don't believe that claim, but I'm open to some hard evidence, or at least some strong statistical correlation. The comment had neither - it has a conspiracy theory about who funded such research, and a testimonial of ONE death. I would have expected to see executives dying from "cell phone cancer," er, brain tumors at a higher-than-average rate for the last quarter century or more, as well as teenagers likewise dying at a higher rate than previously seen. With all the data mining going on, this sort of thing would get noticed. No doubt many real health problems have already been discovered from such statistics.
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For something related, I recall the scares from circa 1990 about high-tension power transmission lines (and magnetic fields generated by CRT televisions and computer monitors, collectively VLF or Very Low Frequency RF radiation), and the belief they cause cancer. There were stories in EE Times about it (apparently repeating the mainstream press stories about lawsuits against utilities and against daycare centers who built under power lines), but there was also a report of one study of women who spent time going up utility poles as part of their jobs. On average they had a LOWER incidence of breast cancer than average, presumably because of the exercise they got from climbing utility poles. This powerlines-cause-cancer idea has also been lumped with cellphones and cell towers (which operate in the UHF range, about ten million times higher frequency).
Here's a story about the power line scare:
Frontline "Currents of Fear" synopsis:
FRONTLINE Programs -Currents of Fear | FRONTLINE | PBS
Transcript:
FRONTLINE: previous reports: transcripts: currents of fear | PBS
Here's a story about the power line scare:
Frontline "Currents of Fear" synopsis:
FRONTLINE Programs -Currents of Fear | FRONTLINE | PBS
Transcript:
FRONTLINE: previous reports: transcripts: currents of fear | PBS
I work for Motorola, I have worked there for 38 years. Motorola was recently broken up into two companies and some of the remnants have been spun off or sold. I now work for Motorola Solutions, a company that does NOT manufacture consumer cellular phones. In my previous work with the former Motorola, I did design and support cellular phones that used the iDEN and GSM standards.
There were several hundred engineers in the facility where I worked, and yes a few tried nuking popcorn with cell phones. Of course nothing happened. One of the more theoretical engineers did a mathematical model that showed that there isn't enough energy in a dozen phones to pop a single kernel even if it could ALL be delivered to the corn.
The Youtube video showing the idiot removing the magnetron from a microwave oven and hiding it under the table is WRONG, STUPID, and POTENTIALLY DEADLY. Do you know that the microwave oven kills more would be repair persons than all other appliances combined.
The IDIOT wants us to believe that hanging the magnetron on an extension cord will allow it to function. Again, WRONG, and DEADLY. The magnetron is a vacuum tube. It needs about 2500 volts to operate. To make the construction of the oven simpler and cheaper the case of the magnetron IS the plate terminal. The cathode is connected to the heater and brought out to the two pins on the bottom. In normal operation the plate is grounded and the heater winding operates at -2500 volts.
So Mr. Idiot has 2500 volts connected to a metallic object concealed under his table. Without a ground wire the magnetron will not operate. Even with a ground wire the magnetron will emit some RF energy, for a while. The energy will NOT shoot off the end like the video shows. The probe is a 1/4 wave antenna that is designed to operate in a waveguide. Lets assume that the system did work. Have you ever nuked a phone in a microwave? It fries rather quickly. Yes, it was a sanctioned experiment at work. OK it was approved after the fact. I proved my point.
Don't even take the cover off a microwave oven unless you understand what's going on inside and are prepared to deal with 2500 volts at instantly lethal current levels.
Of course there are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in between.
I am aware of the studies conducted by my former employer, and I knew one of the PHD researchers that conducted some of them before he was brutally murdered (totally unrelated to work).
My wife, Sherri has been through a lot lately with many of her relatives passing away early in life due to cancer. Do you know where she spent her day today? At the funeral for her aunt who died at 66 years old of an aggressive brain tumor. The oncologists at the University of Pittsburgh can't say for sure but the tumor was located just above the ear on the side of her head where she held her phone. She was a nurse and talked on the phone a lot. They told all of us that it would be prudent to limit cell phone use.
So...Where do I carry MY phone.
Lets just say that it spends as little time in my pocket as possible. I don't talk much either. That has been the case long before the recent discoveries. It's in the cup holder when I'm in the car, and on my desk at home or work.
Other common sense from an engineers perspective:
Use the cordless phone or a wired phone instead of a cellular whenever possible. The cordless only has to reach the base station in your house. The cell phone talks through a tower up to 5 miles away. The cell phone can have up to 60 times more transmit power. Cell phone = 600 mW, cordless = 10 mW both FCC limits. Both types of phones can reduce power in good conditions to conserve battery life. So your cell phone fries you less when it has more signal bars.
If you carry a cell phone keep it away from your head, genitals or other soft tissue by using a bluetooth device and keeping the phone on a belt holder or purse. Bluetooth devices are also limited to 10 mW, often less.
Your cell phone is in constant communication with the cell tower. It is transmitting even when you are not talking and does emit RF energy even when it is idle in your pocket. Some cell phone standards need to communicate with the tower more often than others. Most of the newer CDMA based standards (most 3G phones) require accurate path loss measurements so they talk to the tower more than the old GSM stuff.
Texting, and other methods of use that holds the phone away from your head are preferred.
And lastly, your car is NOT a phonebooth, shut up and drive!
There were several hundred engineers in the facility where I worked, and yes a few tried nuking popcorn with cell phones. Of course nothing happened. One of the more theoretical engineers did a mathematical model that showed that there isn't enough energy in a dozen phones to pop a single kernel even if it could ALL be delivered to the corn.
The Youtube video showing the idiot removing the magnetron from a microwave oven and hiding it under the table is WRONG, STUPID, and POTENTIALLY DEADLY. Do you know that the microwave oven kills more would be repair persons than all other appliances combined.
The IDIOT wants us to believe that hanging the magnetron on an extension cord will allow it to function. Again, WRONG, and DEADLY. The magnetron is a vacuum tube. It needs about 2500 volts to operate. To make the construction of the oven simpler and cheaper the case of the magnetron IS the plate terminal. The cathode is connected to the heater and brought out to the two pins on the bottom. In normal operation the plate is grounded and the heater winding operates at -2500 volts.
So Mr. Idiot has 2500 volts connected to a metallic object concealed under his table. Without a ground wire the magnetron will not operate. Even with a ground wire the magnetron will emit some RF energy, for a while. The energy will NOT shoot off the end like the video shows. The probe is a 1/4 wave antenna that is designed to operate in a waveguide. Lets assume that the system did work. Have you ever nuked a phone in a microwave? It fries rather quickly. Yes, it was a sanctioned experiment at work. OK it was approved after the fact. I proved my point.
Don't even take the cover off a microwave oven unless you understand what's going on inside and are prepared to deal with 2500 volts at instantly lethal current levels.
Of course there are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in between.
I am aware of the studies conducted by my former employer, and I knew one of the PHD researchers that conducted some of them before he was brutally murdered (totally unrelated to work).
My wife, Sherri has been through a lot lately with many of her relatives passing away early in life due to cancer. Do you know where she spent her day today? At the funeral for her aunt who died at 66 years old of an aggressive brain tumor. The oncologists at the University of Pittsburgh can't say for sure but the tumor was located just above the ear on the side of her head where she held her phone. She was a nurse and talked on the phone a lot. They told all of us that it would be prudent to limit cell phone use.
So...Where do I carry MY phone.
Lets just say that it spends as little time in my pocket as possible. I don't talk much either. That has been the case long before the recent discoveries. It's in the cup holder when I'm in the car, and on my desk at home or work.
Other common sense from an engineers perspective:
Use the cordless phone or a wired phone instead of a cellular whenever possible. The cordless only has to reach the base station in your house. The cell phone talks through a tower up to 5 miles away. The cell phone can have up to 60 times more transmit power. Cell phone = 600 mW, cordless = 10 mW both FCC limits. Both types of phones can reduce power in good conditions to conserve battery life. So your cell phone fries you less when it has more signal bars.
If you carry a cell phone keep it away from your head, genitals or other soft tissue by using a bluetooth device and keeping the phone on a belt holder or purse. Bluetooth devices are also limited to 10 mW, often less.
Your cell phone is in constant communication with the cell tower. It is transmitting even when you are not talking and does emit RF energy even when it is idle in your pocket. Some cell phone standards need to communicate with the tower more often than others. Most of the newer CDMA based standards (most 3G phones) require accurate path loss measurements so they talk to the tower more than the old GSM stuff.
Texting, and other methods of use that holds the phone away from your head are preferred.
And lastly, your car is NOT a phonebooth, shut up and drive!
Hello,
Glioblastoma multiforme is the name of the cancer AKA as grade IV glioma or astrocytoma. I would not wish this on anyone. For personal reasons I have studied this more over the last 18 months than DIY audio. Lower grade gliomas can and do grow at the rate of 1 to 2 mm per year sometimes less just waiting for a DNA change or a trigger. The stem cell like tumor cells live in what the doctors call a micro niche. It is not just one thing that causes the tumor to grow, if it was the science would be easy. It is a combination of factors. Some of the thinkers suspect that cell phone levels of microwave radiation changes the conditions of the micro-niche allowing the existing stem cell like tumor cells to grow and express Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor that allows new blood vessels to grow. The new blood supply provides oxygen and nourishment for the tumor to grow. These tumors grow for years. The effects are subtle at first; you learn new ways to compensate. Then one day the mass becomes critical and you have your first seizure or you blank out and reset all your user names and passwords . How this cancer kills is the mass becomes so large and the pressure in your skull becomes so great that the part of your brain that controls basic functions including breathing shut down. This is slow and ugly. No it is not me.
I have sat in on many doctor visits with neurosurgeons, Radiation Oncologists, Medical Oncologists and most recently a Neuro-Oncologist. To a person not one of them will put a cell phone to their head, I asked each of them. Not one of them will say that there is a causal effect, cell phones causing cancer.
DT
Glioblastoma multiforme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Glioblastoma multiforme is the name of the cancer AKA as grade IV glioma or astrocytoma. I would not wish this on anyone. For personal reasons I have studied this more over the last 18 months than DIY audio. Lower grade gliomas can and do grow at the rate of 1 to 2 mm per year sometimes less just waiting for a DNA change or a trigger. The stem cell like tumor cells live in what the doctors call a micro niche. It is not just one thing that causes the tumor to grow, if it was the science would be easy. It is a combination of factors. Some of the thinkers suspect that cell phone levels of microwave radiation changes the conditions of the micro-niche allowing the existing stem cell like tumor cells to grow and express Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor that allows new blood vessels to grow. The new blood supply provides oxygen and nourishment for the tumor to grow. These tumors grow for years. The effects are subtle at first; you learn new ways to compensate. Then one day the mass becomes critical and you have your first seizure or you blank out and reset all your user names and passwords . How this cancer kills is the mass becomes so large and the pressure in your skull becomes so great that the part of your brain that controls basic functions including breathing shut down. This is slow and ugly. No it is not me.
I have sat in on many doctor visits with neurosurgeons, Radiation Oncologists, Medical Oncologists and most recently a Neuro-Oncologist. To a person not one of them will put a cell phone to their head, I asked each of them. Not one of them will say that there is a causal effect, cell phones causing cancer.
DT
Glioblastoma multiforme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My diploma project was a microwave radar alarm system that worked on Doppler effect when some body is moving inside of the covered area. Gann diode produced about 20 mili Watt of 10.7 GHz energy. We had to include some safety calculations in our projects, so I calculated the distance safe according to Soviet medical standards. It was 20 centimeters. Closer distance according to Soviet standards was dangerous for 20 miliwatt of RF energy from waveguide of match box size.
It's been decades now that people have been trying to blame electromagnetic energy for cancers. First it was 60 Hz transmission lines, now cell phones. If the link was significant, it would have shown up with far greater certainty than it has so far. IMO, you have a far greater chance of being done in by many other risks. Ignoring any of that, I think cell phones are a huge annoyance, service plans are a rip off, and I don't own one. Why should I pay lots of money so other people can bother me at their convenience?
It's been illegal for a while here to drive with a hand-held device, but I see people using them all the time. Usually, staring down at the phone in their lap, instead of paying attention to the road in front.
jeff
Conrad, EMR is the elephant in the primate cage that no one wants to talk about. EMR need not be ionizing or heat tissue to have a biological effect.
Someone, Wavebourn, tell us what are the medical factors considered when evaluating EMR safety. What I understand the factors considered for cell phone safety are these. Is DNA damaged? Is enough heat added (think popcorn) to damage tissue? Other factors are not considered in the currently released reports.
Related but not cell phones is MRI Radio Frequency output power limits. There is an upper FDA limit to the output power of current technology because of the effect on the chemical/electrical membrane potentials in neurological tissue. The chemical/electrical membrane potentials are not addressed in the currently released WHO cell phone research publications.
Astrocytoma cancers developed over long periods of time. There are many factors that may impact the growth rate or to cause the growth rate to be become malignant. Giving cell phones a pass when the possible mechanisms have not been studied seems premature to me.
DT
All just for fun!
Someone, Wavebourn, tell us what are the medical factors considered when evaluating EMR safety. What I understand the factors considered for cell phone safety are these. Is DNA damaged? Is enough heat added (think popcorn) to damage tissue? Other factors are not considered in the currently released reports.
Related but not cell phones is MRI Radio Frequency output power limits. There is an upper FDA limit to the output power of current technology because of the effect on the chemical/electrical membrane potentials in neurological tissue. The chemical/electrical membrane potentials are not addressed in the currently released WHO cell phone research publications.
Astrocytoma cancers developed over long periods of time. There are many factors that may impact the growth rate or to cause the growth rate to be become malignant. Giving cell phones a pass when the possible mechanisms have not been studied seems premature to me.
DT
All just for fun!
I have one, somewhere... I think it would work, if I bought some minutes for it. I think it even has a camera, but I never read the instruction book, so it has never taken a picture. Bought it for $40 US, so my wife could call me or I could be rescued or something. Just never wanted a phone in a pocket, but then I never had a calculator in a pocket either. Guess I am a sorry sort of nerd.... but I never walk around talking loudly to myself either I suspect my time for that will come along fairly soon, but I still won't have a phone in my pocket
Bud.
Bud.
We all tend to blame things for our problems, especially when we don't understand them. We don't understand all the causes of cancer, so we need something to blame. If low frequency EMI is the cause, then I am toast. The power lines that came from a power generation plant ran down one side of the street where I lived for the first 20 years of my life, and there was a 10 KW AM broadcasting station about a block away pumping RF into my house on 1.08 MHz continuously 24 hours a day.
I couldn't remember the name, but that is it. The reset thing happened 2 months ago. She was at work (a nurse in a doctors office) when the doctor observed strange behavoir. First it was small things like forgetting names, but within the same day she had lost the ability to communicate. The doctor ordered an ambulance fearing a stroke. MRI revealed a large tumor. The tumor sucks up blood needed for brain function and puts pressure on the brain causing eventual shutdown. From the first "reset" to death was 7 weeks.
I observed the same thing. I have also worked with a few people doing EME (ElectroMagnetic Exposure) research. There have been some interesting findings that show a direct relationship between low level RF exposure, especially pulsed RF, and the ability to concentrate. Clearly there is some link.
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