valves better than solid state?

[kevinkr]

Wahab, Funny I've always thought that really good tube amps won hands down on dynamics, that is what got me to switch in the first place, yes solid state amps are often more powerful, but I thought the range was better handled by a really good tube amp. Again subtleties, and I really meant it when I said I had heard comparable performance from both.

 

[Evenharmonics]

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the white and blue are the valve amps.

So Evenharmonics, can you share with us what amps your graphs relate to and what topologies they use.

White = Single ended triode 300B tube amp (Tubelab SE)
Blue = P-P transistor amp (QSC RMX850)
Yellow = P-P tube amp (Dynaco Mark 4)

It goes to show that the circuit type determines harmonic signature, not tube vs transistor.

 

[wahab]

Wahab, Funny I've always thought that really good tube amps won hands down on dynamics, that is what got me to switch in the first place, yes solid state amps are often more powerful, but I thought the range was better handled by a really good tube amp. Again subtleties, and I really meant it when I said I had heard comparable performance from both.

That s not contradictory..

Tube amps clipping is not as brutal than SS amps , so using same
power amps, the tube one will provide in fact higher and also rising
distorsion slightly above the clipping point, resulting in a sound that
contain more harmonics , and as such , this will be interpreted as more
dynamic by the gullible ear+brain system , wich in such case is truly right
about apparent dynamic but is awfully wrong about the real accuracy
of the tested system...

 

[Wavebourn]

What is better, when both valves and solid state devices are used to get THE BETTER END RESULT. PERIOD.

 

[Globulator]

White = Single ended triode 300B tube amp (Tubelab SE)
Blue = P-P transistor amp (QSC RMX850)
Yellow = P-P tube amp (Dynaco Mark 4)

It goes to show that the circuit type determines harmonic signature, not tube vs transistor.

Except only the transistor amp has harmonics marching off into the distance, both tube amp harmonics die by the end of the graph

I still think most people are arguing about different things - for instance Wahab claiming solid state is more linear. I'm sorry but while a heavy feedback op-amp can be more linear than a tube, transistor amplifiers generally contain big old non-linear transistors in the output stage which are less linear than tubes.

I suppose using an op-amp in the VAS section and then using source followers may eliminate that but most amps are not designed that way at all.

So if (as I think) the topic was about devices I think tubes win, if it's about op-amps, solid state wins. Either way I find tube amps generally a lot more pleasant to listen to, more dynamic and musical

 

[Wavebourn]

By the way, Denon solid state receiver sounds surprisingly well. I bought it in order to combine Audissey with tube outputs, but still enjoy it as is...

 

[roline]

Did I miss something? The speakers dynamic impedance and output power level is frequency dependant. SO when the impedance increases, the output power decreases, on both the hi and low end. Transistor outputs don't care and even ultra linear tube outputs really don't care, Triode outputs are directly effected and self compensating, so it is the reflected impedance to the output stage that makes the most differrence.