So, you've seen my photos then? Doh! I was trying to keep them out of the public domain.
Yes, I agree..
Students need to be taught how to think...
Well we put in place Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs..
Educational Psychology Interactive: Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Then learning styles..
Overview of learning styles
Then use Transactual analysis..
Transactional analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Then the course work..then the Philosophy
What does 'I hear and I forget I see and I remember I do and I understand' mean
Then we twist everything to fit into funding requirements...and then have to forget everthing and get it done...Sheekh...become a lecturer its just ace honest..
Hey the problem is.... its just that most teachers care and thats the get out isn't it..some students don't...how many books are there on this subject...
You could save the trees except for the politics but thats another story..
Then of course there is the 30 years as a tech..but thats the icing on the cake..LOL
Regards
M. Gregg
Students need to be taught how to think...
Well we put in place Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs..
Educational Psychology Interactive: Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Then learning styles..
Overview of learning styles
Then use Transactual analysis..
Transactional analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Then the course work..then the Philosophy
What does 'I hear and I forget I see and I remember I do and I understand' mean
Then we twist everything to fit into funding requirements...and then have to forget everthing and get it done...Sheekh...become a lecturer its just ace honest..
Hey the problem is.... its just that most teachers care and thats the get out isn't it..some students don't...how many books are there on this subject...
You could save the trees except for the politics but thats another story..
Then of course there is the 30 years as a tech..but thats the icing on the cake..LOL
Regards
M. Gregg
I guess,
What I am saying is unless you know about "Education"..Its not about teaching..
Sorry what I mean to say is its about 90% hitting the boxes for the funding and the ever increasing "red tape" (how you should be teaching and methods)
The content is in (or should be in the lesson plans)..then there is the actual teaching which is based upon required methods and the "zing" that the tutor can muster in the lessons...this is a very different perspective than what you think you know about the lessons when you are actually sitting in one as a student..
OK i'll shut up now..
Regards
M. Gregg
What I am saying is unless you know about "Education"..Its not about teaching..
Sorry what I mean to say is its about 90% hitting the boxes for the funding and the ever increasing "red tape" (how you should be teaching and methods)
The content is in (or should be in the lesson plans)..then there is the actual teaching which is based upon required methods and the "zing" that the tutor can muster in the lessons...this is a very different perspective than what you think you know about the lessons when you are actually sitting in one as a student..
OK i'll shut up now..Regards
M. Gregg
Crikey. Sounds dangerous.
Not something I would expect a child to say, unless put up to it by a dogmatic parent with some axe to grind that's blinded them to common sense. Someone who doesn't see the irony of holding up a placard that tells people what to think, instead of how to think.
How would you go about separating the how from the what, such that you could teach one without the other?
Prevailing mainstream theory of education is highly sophisticated and takes most of what you might think of into account.
The core problems of practical teaching are alienation, corruption, and cost. Social cohesion was never a perfect guarantee, but when I was at school teachers were to some degree motivated and monitored by the community. In most city schools now, this is no longer true. Consequently teachers must be called to demonstrate good practice to outsiders, and red tape multiplies. A game ensues, and the upshot is that teachers are inclined to stop teaching, and spend their time filling in false reports of how they have taught. It's a gruesome anomoly in the unfolding of social progress.
Many teachers have always been drawn from the chattering classes, keen to blame inner-city youth for their own problems. Here in Bradford two generations of kids with Pakistani roots have had their education trashed by teachers who simply refused to relate to them. Total disaster, as we shall continue to see.
If you think schools and universities are bad, take a walk round a college of further education. You'll find that most lessons don't happen. Lecturers call this method "FOFO": f... off and find out. Inspectors give notice in advance, and the only classes that get taught are the ones they visit. Other than that they look at a sample of falsified reports, get a free dinner, and go away thanking their stars that they haven't felt the need to criticise a powerful institution.
Although colleges get more money if students pass, it's not worth the effort, and failure is easy to blame on "less able" and "difficult" youth. Obviously this is a vicious circle.
It's hard make a difference. Corruption is so widespread that nobody can get a grip on what's going on, and if you stir up serious debate you'll get shot to bits from every direction.
Not just teaching. Throughout every area of civic responsibility, the story is much the same AFAICS.
One good thing about the demise of the LIBOR and other failures of banking regulation is that suddenly the UK might need to educate more than just a few rich people. We might have to start making stuff again. That's the acid test.
Please excuse the bold its just to split the conversation not loudness..
This will only happen when we address that a science lesson or engineering lesson is just that (teaching the subject) and not a place to play out games of implementing red tape...Most of which is set by the likes of Ofsted.. Ah now to the point where do they get it from?
(another straw man)
Just my thoughts..I think the methodology of how to teach has become more important than the subject being taught..until this top heavy triangle is reversed were stuffed..
Regards
M. Gregg
This will only happen when we address that a science lesson or engineering lesson is just that (teaching the subject) and not a place to play out games of implementing red tape...Most of which is set by the likes of Ofsted.. Ah now to the point where do they get it from?
(another straw man)
Just my thoughts..I think the methodology of how to teach has become more important than the subject being taught..until this top heavy triangle is reversed were stuffed..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Yes, I discovered that about 10 years ago. I won't bore you with the details, but I gave myself day release from my business to attend HNC classes at my local tech. I was astonished. This college had a good reputation, but I quickly wondered why - perhaps living on past successes? Lessons (almost) did not happen. Students were given lots of photocopied stuff to read, and then given an assignment. Very little that I could identify as 'teaching' took place. Fortunately there were no exams and assignments are easier to cheat with - one student offered me money to do one of his assignments and seemed surprised when I refused. One electronics teacher was a PhD chemist and only semi-literate. It is fortunate that I already knew lots of electronics, and I was just seeking a piece of paper to say so.PlasticIsGood said:
Most of the students were hard-working, mainly technicians in the electronics industry. I felt really sorry for them as they were getting a very raw deal.
Is this a comment on the value of PhDs? Is the standard of doctorates declining too?
Freakonomics podcast
This might be of interest to anyone considering going to college :
Freakonomics Freakonomics Goes to College, Part 2: A New Freakonomics Radio Podcast
There's also a subsequent article about getting a PhD in six weeks.
This might be of interest to anyone considering going to college :
Freakonomics Freakonomics Goes to College, Part 2: A New Freakonomics Radio Podcast
There's also a subsequent article about getting a PhD in six weeks.
Just my thoughts..
Question how do I get a job?
Answer..
You need a "C" (level 3) minimum in maths, english, and IT.
Then look at the job you would like to do get the person spec. By getting the job application paper work.
This will give you what Quals are required for the job spec.
Next look at any levels of job that can give road to the job..ie don't work in a Bar if you can work at a low level in the areas of interest. (Job experience)
At the same time get on the first level of qual and keep getting the quals on the person spec list while you are applying for the jobs. At some point you will get a break... Without the education you have no chance. If you are lucky the company will invest in people and possibly fund some of your course work.
How many people do I know that went straight to uni and ended up flipping burgers..(Lots) why no work experience..or they don't know what the job entails and hate it when/if they get into it.
I'll give you an example (I want to be a vet) so I work at a garage repairing cars..
Regards
M. Gregg
Here is an example of how it all fails..
OK a group of students I spent some time with in industry.
OK you have all passed your electronics course (not with me) at college, designed a circuit that you have made with a function in mind...well lets have a look at some of the equipment you work on..I don't work here so you should be able to run rings around me. Lets have a look at the positioning system and anti collision circuit + speed control.
So I ask them to bring to the lesson copies of there equipment schematics..
Project them on the screen OK starting from the go to start position how does the circuit work...Long silence...
Ok name the components....Long silence..
OK your all a bit shy..ok what is a FET?...Long silence..
OK what is a transistor or a diode..answer its a switch..er OK so how does it work..Long silence....
MY thoughts am I asking the right questions they don't understand what I'm asking...
OK so I spend 2 hours explaining how the circuit works..Having never seen the diagram before...
Then one student puts up his hand..I have never done any of this before..Everything I have done in the last 3 years makes sense now..
My answer yes but you have done 3 years of electronics..
Student.....no one ever explained how to read the drawing and what effect a component failure would have on the rest of the circuit..
OK how do we fault find ..LOL (hes joking)..we all know about systematic fault location (SFF).
Long silence.. Oh c**p.. Why don't they know.. So another 3 hours going over things they "already know"..
Regards
M. Gregg
OK a group of students I spent some time with in industry.
OK you have all passed your electronics course (not with me) at college, designed a circuit that you have made with a function in mind...well lets have a look at some of the equipment you work on..I don't work here so you should be able to run rings around me. Lets have a look at the positioning system and anti collision circuit + speed control.
So I ask them to bring to the lesson copies of there equipment schematics..
Project them on the screen OK starting from the go to start position how does the circuit work...Long silence...
Ok name the components....Long silence..
OK your all a bit shy..ok what is a FET?...Long silence..
OK what is a transistor or a diode..answer its a switch..er OK so how does it work..Long silence....
MY thoughts am I asking the right questions they don't understand what I'm asking...
OK so I spend 2 hours explaining how the circuit works..Having never seen the diagram before...
Then one student puts up his hand..I have never done any of this before..Everything I have done in the last 3 years makes sense now..
My answer yes but you have done 3 years of electronics..
Student.....no one ever explained how to read the drawing and what effect a component failure would have on the rest of the circuit..
OK how do we fault find ..LOL (hes joking)..we all know about systematic fault location (SFF).
Long silence..
Oh c**p.. Why don't they know.. So another 3 hours going over things they "already know"..Regards
M. Gregg
To explain the above..
Why didn't they know...Its not the fault of the college..
The questions I asked are not in the course curriculum and the tutors can only teach the course curriculum..
No one cares as long as the students pass the course <<<why would they?.
They have enough on there plate with equal opps and OFsted who by the way don't know anything about whats being taught only does it tick there boxes linked to the red tape..and teaching methods.
Everything else dosen't matter does it...<< I was told I think and worry to much about things I have no control over and (Get a life)...thats what the awarding bodies are for.
Regards
M. Gregg
Why didn't they know...Its not the fault of the college..
The questions I asked are not in the course curriculum and the tutors can only teach the course curriculum..
No one cares as long as the students pass the course <<<why would they?.
They have enough on there plate with equal opps and OFsted who by the way don't know anything about whats being taught only does it tick there boxes linked to the red tape..and teaching methods.
Everything else dosen't matter does it...
<< I was told I think and worry to much about things I have no control over and (Get a life)...thats what the awarding bodies are for. Regards
M. Gregg
My impression is that decent analogue circuit theory has all but disappeared from UK education. (Someone please tell me I am wrong!!) Students may get a brief introduction, which many of them will not understand, but then they quickly pass on to PIC programming, project management and a smattering of stuff on antennas (without much real understanding of EM theory). A bright DIYer will know much more about circuit design than a typical UK graduate EE. Sadly, the EE is likely not to be a DIYer too; I have been astonished at how little interest many modern students have in the subject of their chosen course.
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