I really enjoyed reading this article from NY magazine. Its a bit long, but worth persevering with. Those who've seen 'The Social Network' might remember Peter Thiel, who is one of the co-founders of PayPal.
How the Notion That a College Degree Is Essentially Worthless Has Become One of the Year's Most Fashionable Ideas -- New York Magazine
How the Notion That a College Degree Is Essentially Worthless Has Become One of the Year's Most Fashionable Ideas -- New York Magazine
Yeaaaaah, about that article: Altschuler has a degree in Computer Science and Thiel studied at Stanford.
I went back to school after years of doing live sound to polish my engineering chops, learned stuff I never even dreamed existed - plus I found a passion for economics. University was good to me, so these guys are quite wrong as far as my experience goes.
I went back to school after years of doing live sound to polish my engineering chops, learned stuff I never even dreamed existed - plus I found a passion for economics. University was good to me, so these guys are quite wrong as far as my experience goes.
But you are a prime example of what they are saying. They don't say no one should go to college. I'll bet those "years of doing live sound" gave you a great perspective.
The issue is primarily with the push that everyone should go straight away. There are other options. (esp. think of the liberal arts?)
Another aspect would be the argument that we need to improve our primary education system. Make high school better. Help "kids" figure out what they should do and give them better tools instead of just spout that everyone should go to university? No?
Those who want to go by all means should. Certainly scientists and technical professions will still require the training, but there are many paths.
Indeed
They even mention in the article the argument 'against' their thesis which goes 'they just want to deny others the fun they had for themselves'.Quite - that's the gist of the message to me.
Do we have a false dichotomy here: "Everyone should go to college" vs. "College degrees are worthless"? Some should go to college, but probably many fewer than actually do nowadays. Some college degrees probably are worthless.
I am only familiar with the UK system, but the problem we have is that so-called Higher Education is far too often almost indistinguishable from Further Education, which itself may be little more than a combination of some trade skills plus remedial education to make up for what the secondary schools failed to do. True HE would/should only be accessible to a small minority, say 10-15% but they should be chosen on merit not parental income. Many more would benefit from true high quality FE, but that seems to have almost disappeared. In the past FE was highly regarded but poorly funded. People leave 'HE' in the UK and they are less literate/numerate/educated than school leavers of 30 years ago. We have conned an entire generation: they go to a place which calls itself a university, they spend 3 years as a 'student' without doing much serious study, then leave with a piece of paper which calls itself a degree certificate. They come down to earth with a bump and end up flipping burgers or working in a call centre. We then congratulate ourselves on having an 'educated workforce'.
I am only familiar with the UK system, but the problem we have is that so-called Higher Education is far too often almost indistinguishable from Further Education, which itself may be little more than a combination of some trade skills plus remedial education to make up for what the secondary schools failed to do. True HE would/should only be accessible to a small minority, say 10-15% but they should be chosen on merit not parental income. Many more would benefit from true high quality FE, but that seems to have almost disappeared. In the past FE was highly regarded but poorly funded. People leave 'HE' in the UK and they are less literate/numerate/educated than school leavers of 30 years ago. We have conned an entire generation: they go to a place which calls itself a university, they spend 3 years as a 'student' without doing much serious study, then leave with a piece of paper which calls itself a degree certificate. They come down to earth with a bump and end up flipping burgers or working in a call centre. We then congratulate ourselves on having an 'educated workforce'.
While higher education is not a panacea we all certainly want individuals with the highest caliber education and skills before they engineer our airplanes, cars, bridges, etc or perform surgery on our hearts or brains. While all fields involve learning as you go there are some where the initial skills to begin hands-on need to be superior.
well put DF96.
Certainly. Those are still a relatively small % though in terms of the general population...
College Conspiracy - YouTube
The vid is nicely put together but they rather over-egg their pudding. Also ignore the shameless plug at the end
The vid is nicely put together but they rather over-egg their pudding. Also ignore the shameless plug at the end
How long have you been in Asia?
I spent a couple of years over that way, courtesy of the military. It's been a little over 40 years ago, but I certainly enjoyed it, at least most of the time.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Living here for just over 6 years now. But had plenty of travels (at first holidays but later for business) to Asia beginning in 1993 which I guess is when I caught the bug
I haven't seen a barber in years. I trim my own hair with one of these and a pair of scissors.
LUXOR Cutting Edge Collection - Razor Comb Set
College is just one part of the mass delusional psychosis phenomena that I've had to dodge for years from various psychotic members of society. I graduated in 1982 (there was a recession then) with a BS in chemistry and couldn't get a job for 7 years in my field. Fortunately, I had no college debt. I lived with my father for about 39 years who was usually pissed off all the time. I worked at a lot of low social statis jobs and experienced a lot of hate from people who saw me as inferior because of the job I had. I thought of suicide a lot back then, but kept hanging on. I still live in the same house. My father passed away from lung cancer in 1999 and I never had a mortgage. I own the house and its paid off. I had to pay my brother and sister over $30k each to get it, since we each inherited a 3rd of my father's assets. Right now, I have to listen to some people who are jealous that I own a house with no mortgage. A lot of people demand that I pay them money because they think I owe them something. Some have even threatened to rob me. So now, I keep quiet about money with most people and try not to give advice or any information to anyone unless its necessary. I got a job as a patent examiner in 1989 and quit after 6 months because of the pressure and worked for over 20 years as a patent searcher and accumulated over $700,000 of debt free wealth because of my drive to escape the fear of being poor and being a victim of idiots' hate. I still live frugally while seeing over a $1000 of dividends deposited in my accounts each month as well as about $3k salary per month. Its all fiat money anyway which loses its value over time.
Before I graduated from college, I thought a degree was my ticket to success. Ironically, one significant thing I learned was a lot of the theory behind the 2nd law of thermodynamics in P. Chem. I put 2 and 2 together, remembered the gas lines of the 70's and realized the real life horror story about the oil dependence we are experiencing. The peak of world oil production has been predicted to come sometime in about the year 2000-2008 depending on the reference. I discussed the peak oil problem with people for about 30 years and found there are basically 2 types. The ones with a background in life sciences or engineering understand the problem that I'm discussing with them. Those without this background think we'll just use something else and everything will be fine. I've heard a lot of the same answers over and over. We'll just use something else, when it runs out I won't be here anyway, let them (their children) worry about it, etc.
Before I graduated from college, I thought a degree was my ticket to success. Ironically, one significant thing I learned was a lot of the theory behind the 2nd law of thermodynamics in P. Chem. I put 2 and 2 together, remembered the gas lines of the 70's and realized the real life horror story about the oil dependence we are experiencing. The peak of world oil production has been predicted to come sometime in about the year 2000-2008 depending on the reference. I discussed the peak oil problem with people for about 30 years and found there are basically 2 types. The ones with a background in life sciences or engineering understand the problem that I'm discussing with them. Those without this background think we'll just use something else and everything will be fine. I've heard a lot of the same answers over and over. We'll just use something else, when it runs out I won't be here anyway, let them (their children) worry about it, etc.
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I am utterly appalled at this type of thinking!..........Yes indeed this maybe the "nail in the coffin" of the western world........giving rise to the industrious Chinese, et.al. China and its' contemporaries are cranking out degreed individuals at an increasing rate.......sealing the 'Wests' fate. The particular individual in the You-Tube link...was of course a University Professor. Doesn't seem odd that the very proponents of this discourse against Colleges....are the beneficiaries of said Degrees???? Irregardless of if it is outside their current occupation.
My brother-in-law is a High-school dropout.......I am often reminded of how limited his education is......by some obscure information that he has no clue, of its very existence.........nor detail.
So very sad.......the way things have become as of late.
_______________________________________________________Rick..........
My brother-in-law is a High-school dropout.......I am often reminded of how limited his education is......by some obscure information that he has no clue, of its very existence.........nor detail.
So very sad.......the way things have become as of late.
_______________________________________________________Rick..........
When our daughter yesterday approached me with a math problem asking, "Dad, I'm confused, which one of this answers is right?" I wanted to kick ***** of those University graduates who wrote the book and the entire school program. They don't teach to think, they teach to select one "proper" answer from several presented. Srudents don't even think on a problem, they automatically start from ANSWERS trying to guess which one MAY FIT.
Like, when I tried to find a job in the industry I among other people pioneered, I faced people who interviewed me. They wanted to hear ONE RIGHT ANSWER to the question about how to do something in VERY FLEXIBLE UNIX OPERATION SYSTEM. I was giving them several most direct and simple ways to solve the problem, but they CONSIDERED THEM AS WRONG. Why? Because they got the same type of education our daughter is getting now, when they DO NOT KNOW WHY, they REMEMBER some NOT NECESSARY RIGHT AND OPTIMAL answers to questions.
Like, when I tried to find a job in the industry I among other people pioneered, I faced people who interviewed me. They wanted to hear ONE RIGHT ANSWER to the question about how to do something in VERY FLEXIBLE UNIX OPERATION SYSTEM. I was giving them several most direct and simple ways to solve the problem, but they CONSIDERED THEM AS WRONG. Why? Because they got the same type of education our daughter is getting now, when they DO NOT KNOW WHY, they REMEMBER some NOT NECESSARY RIGHT AND OPTIMAL answers to questions.
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