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Best sounding SS rectifiers?
Best sounding SS rectifiers?
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Old 12th August 2011, 05:30 AM   #11
erin is offline erin  Australia
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Originally Posted by ! View Post
^ Who cares about reverse recovery time with 100/120Hz rectified mains frequency? Also, nobody cares about forward drop voltage differences with +-15 to 20V (30 to 40V) rails on an audio amp.
(just my opinion, apparently someone does care).
Well, actually, its more about the little HF voltage spike that the diode makes when it stops conducting.

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Originally Posted by ! View Post
Let's get down to science on this topic. "IF" there is a sonic improvement it will be had with soft recovery diodes and among them, the differences aren't much to consider, but that's only if the rest of the PSU and amp can't reject the switching noise which should easily be mitigated with an RC snubber subcircuit if a decoupling cap alone isn't enough.
Schottky made a big audible improvement equal to any improvement I have heard before from cap swaps etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ! View Post
If your supply is regulated, there should not be any sonic difference from a diode change unless there is noise the supply isn't designed to handle... hint: inductors
for those modifying a pre existing PCB, fitting inductors may not be an option, and this is where the schottky comes into its own. IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ! View Post
That's not to suggest a diode change can't possible effect sound, only that it's not a magic bullet but rather depending on what the weaknesses are in the design so it would be fair to say that other/different changes instead could make as much difference if not more, or of course we could idealize and say change the diodes, change the other PSU fault too, keep going until the pursuit of perfection leads to satisfaction... or frustration, or just enough time, work and expense that you declare the project done .
I never said it was a magic bullet. But every little thing helps.
The reason I tried different diodes was becuse I had already fitted my DAC with my favourite good sounding quality parts, and it was/is sounding pretty darn good, and was wondering if I could get it sounding any better. So one of the things I had not yet tried was different diodes. I was pleasantly surprised how much positive difference they make.

!, It would probably be equally good for your own knowledge and interest to try some schottky diodes and listen for yourself rather than arguing theory. You are entirely correct with all that you have written, but even going on the theory, you should know that the little turn off spike generated by a diode will create unwanted noise in the rest of the circuit.
Sure a snubber and inductor *may* attenuate it, but wouldn't it be better to eliminate the little spike with a schottky rather than treating the spike with snubbers etc?

I for one am very interested in the subjective opinion of others on this topic.

Last edited by erin; 12th August 2011 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 12th August 2011, 06:26 AM   #12
Robert GS is offline Robert GS  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
Any concensus on the best sounding SS rectifier?

I've been using Vishay HexFRED with excellent result. I read that Cree SiC Schottky is excellent too, but I haven't tried it. I also have some Diotec soft recovery rectifiers and they are good sounding too.

Has anyone done comparisons on these top notch rectifiers? Which one is the best?
I usually listens to music when my stereo is on - IF the rectifier is overloaded and it makes a lot of mechanical noise/sound, it is time to consider a bigger rectifier!
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Old 12th August 2011, 03:26 PM   #13
erin is offline erin  Australia
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Strange how on DIYaudio people don't appear to experiment with diodes, yet are prepared to experiment with nearly anything else.
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Old 12th August 2011, 03:46 PM   #14
! is offline !  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erin View Post
Well, actually, its more about the little HF voltage spike that the diode makes when it stops conducting.
Exactly... but either way you have that, if anything a higher frequency pulse requires better filtering.

Quote:
for those modifying a pre existing PCB, fitting inductors may not be an option, and this is where the schottky comes into its own. IMO.
but if we're talking ideals, wouldn't one pick the best pre existing PCB and/or make their own?

Quote:
I never said it was a magic bullet. But every little thing helps.
This can be taken three ways, one way a builder looks at what helps most, then the next best improvement and so on until they run out of options, time, space, or construction budget. Another way it can be taken is a builder can chase someone else's ideal component combination only to find that they either don't hear a difference or that what someone else subjectively feels sounds better, sounds worse.

The third way is psychological, if time, money and thought are put into a change and it at least sounds as good and someone else claims it sounds better, ego can cause the conclusion that a change made really does sound better whether the rest of an amp is identical (has same strengths and weaknesses) or not.

Quote:
The reason I tried different diodes was becuse I had already fitted my DAC with my favourite good sounding quality parts, and it was/is sounding pretty darn good, and was wondering if I could get it sounding any better. So one of the things I had not yet tried was different diodes. I was pleasantly surprised how much positive difference they make.
There needs to be a distinction made about why it sounds better. With regulation after the rectification stage, diode changes should not make a difference unless the regulation stage isn't working optimally to remove noise... and yet, we come back to the subjective impression of what sounds good. Certain types of noise in the power supply seem to be considered having a positive effect on the sound by some people.

Quote:
!, It would probably be equally good for your own knowledge and interest to try some schottky diodes and listen for yourself rather than arguing theory. You are entirely correct with all that you have written, but even going on the theory, you should know that the little turn off spike generated by a diode will create unwanted noise in the rest of the circuit.
Sure a snubber and inductor *may* attenuate it, but wouldn't it be better to eliminate the little spike with a schottky rather than treating the spike with snubbers etc?
Schottkys are fast for sure, but that doesn't eliminate the spike it just moves it to a higher frequency meaning the regulation stage is less apt to filter it any moreso if there isn't sufficient inductance.
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Old 12th August 2011, 08:30 PM   #15
Boscoe is offline Boscoe  United Kingdom
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Are you actually serious? How a rectifier sounds?
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Old 14th August 2011, 01:40 AM   #16
erin is offline erin  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ! View Post
Exactly... but either way you have that, if anything a higher frequency pulse requires better filtering.
if generalizing, wouldn't the higher frequency use cheaper and smaller parts to filter it out, and move the noise well above the audible frequencies?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ! View Post
but if we're talking ideals, wouldn't one pick the best pre existing PCB and/or make their own?
That would be the best way to go, but not if you are a person who likes to modify pre-existing equipment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ! View Post
This can be taken three ways, one way a builder looks at what helps most, then the next best improvement and so on until they run out of options, time, space, or construction budget. Another way it can be taken is a builder can chase someone else's ideal component combination only to find that they either don't hear a difference or that what someone else subjectively feels sounds better, sounds worse.

The third way is psychological, if time, money and thought are put into a change and it at least sounds as good and someone else claims it sounds better, ego can cause the conclusion that a change made really does sound better whether the rest of an amp is identical (has same strengths and weaknesses) or not.
I guess the psychological aspects your statement really comes down to the individual. I swap parts over quite a lot. Sometimes they sound better, sometimes just different, and sometimes they sound worse to me in my system. I agree that the sound of different parts wont satisfy all people all of the time. This is why experimentation is good. I still think it would be good for you to try schottky diodes next time you have the cover off something and in the mood for tinkering.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ! View Post
There needs to be a distinction made about why it sounds better. With regulation after the rectification stage, diode changes should not make a difference unless the regulation stage isn't working optimally to remove noise... and yet, we come back to the subjective impression of what sounds good. Certain types of noise in the power supply seem to be considered having a positive effect on the sound by some people.
There is lots of stuff that people think "shouldn't" make a difference but does make a difference. Whether "most" people prefer the different sound is another story.
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Old 14th August 2011, 01:59 AM   #17
VictoriaGuy is offline VictoriaGuy  Canada
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Best sounding SS rectifiers?
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Originally Posted by Boscoe View Post
Are you actually serious? How a rectifier sounds?
Sorry, but I've no time to comment.
I'm busy with a green felt marker, colouring the edges of all the pcbs in my equipment. It definitely makes the background darker.
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Old 14th August 2011, 02:46 AM   #18
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Best sounding SS rectifiers?
those that can hear a difference do so because they want to and they believe so.....
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Old 14th August 2011, 02:46 AM   #19
benb is offline benb  United States
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Originally Posted by erin View Post
if generalizing, wouldn't the higher frequency use cheaper and smaller parts to filter it out, and move the noise well above the audible frequencies?
At first thought yes, one would only need smaller value capacitors to filter out higher frequency signals, but often a quantitative change in some parameter (in this case going to a higher frequency) makes a QUALITATIVE change in effect. Higher frequencies are more easily radiated (as in approaching RF or "Radio Frequency") from the diode/transformer wire directly into low-level, relatively high impedance audio inputs where they can cause nonlinearities or outright rectification in a transistor's base-emitter junction and become easily audible. Also, capacitive and inductive coupling more easily conduct higher frequencies (below perhaps 1 MHz this is probably the dominant cause).

And yes, a "no-charge-storage" Shottky or other high-speed rectifier can solve the problem, but I like the idea of using capacitor or RC snubbing across every 1N400x rectifier diode as opposed to using a single "high-end" diode that costs more than the other components combined.

Quote:
I guess the psychological aspects your statement really comes down to the individual. I swap parts over quite a lot. Sometimes they sound better, sometimes just different, and sometimes they sound worse to me in my system. I agree that the sound of different parts wont satisfy all people all of the time. This is why experimentation is good. I still think it would be good for you to try schottky diodes next time you have the cover off something and in the mood for tinkering.....
I think this is only half of science (or engineering, or whatever people are trying to do to make things better) - detecting a difference when changing components is one thing (indeed very important by itself), but determining WHY there's a difference is another and contributes much more to overall knowledge.
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Old 14th August 2011, 02:47 AM   #20
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Best sounding SS rectifiers?
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Sorry, but I've no time to comment.
I'm busy with a green felt marker, colouring the edges of all the pcbs in my equipment. It definitely makes the background darker.
same here, it makes a lot of difference when i paint my traffos black.....
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