Direct box guitar doesn't capture the scream of a tortured speaker cone. But it was all that was available since we had too few mics, and not enough space for isolation. The intent was to capture each instrument of a live session on its own track, so that we could use recorded tracks for individual practice sessions. Additional tracks can be added later. We could not get everybody (especially the large horns) into the room at once so we could put a jam together in pieces. We also experimented with re-recording a single guitar track at a time after the fact using a miked amp.
Those sessions were about 12 years ago. I still use Sonar as a practice and recording tool.
You know, I'm stupid.
Hi theAnonymous1, George,
Not only has this happened to me in the past, it just happened again - a double shot with two people at once (friends, of course - each other, not me!).
One guy rammed a pair of crappy Sony receivers down my throat (7045's, early solid state), both required some light mods and expected fixes. The last was one of those Sony switching power supply units that had been improperly serviced by another person. It lasted a couple months before failing spectacularly. Then it went to another service shop before me. After months of tracking down each fault and rebuilding the power supply the guy went nutty on me. So after rebuilding it completely, he demanded it back just before it really was finished. We're talking days here folks. I have told him that I would finish it as promised for a $100 fee he seems to be fixed on. In fairness, he was helping me reorganize the basement here, which is why I felt he deserved a favor.
The second concluded just about an hour ago - and I saw this thread and decided to chime in. Guy #2 bought a Counterpoint SA-3.1 after I warned him about power supply issues. Of course, it had been completely hacked to the point where even the signal wiring was totally messed up - and the grounding! I wish I could show you pictures, I'll look. I repaired the damaged areas, repaired the wiring and recreated the signal grounds. The HV supply and heater supply were both toast, so fixed and modified slightly for greater reliability. The HV regulator was operating on the actual edge of the SOA curve, at 25 C°! Another R-C section helped along with a better part for the job. This lasted for many months (since June), then it failed. (He too was playing with tubes, and so was in there himself). It seems one of the post regulator filter caps shorted (tested fine way back so I didn't replace all 5 200 uF at 250 VDC), it didn't seem like that would be a problem and he wanted to save money (odd that way - right?). As it turns out, nothing in my repair failed and some protective measures even helped prevent huge damage. I thought the HV pass transistor had shorted, but it tests okay. Therefore I'm reasonable sure something shorted between the heat sink (PCB finger type) and the output from the reg circuit. The zener stack survived as well. So the mods worked as they were designed to.
His ultimatum? Fix it for $25 or less. This is with a huge amount of electrolyte everywhere inside! Days before I had dealt with his friend, so this was clearly a group effort. He told me to scrap it as he didn't want it back. Looking into the unit further proved that this was in fact the right course of action. Even the volume and balance controls got electrolyte inside! It's toast - or a project. I think I'll see if I can fix it during spare time. If I can get the supplies and audio stuff running, I might invest into a new volume and balance control set. That is a ways off, let me tell you!
I think these situations come about when you have a service industry with a well deserved poor reputation due to some people out there. Then just add someone who feels entitled, or has been burned before and you get a situation where the "client" will take an opportunity to "get back" at the industry. That's even though the person they are dealing with has not done them wrong in any way. Not that I know of at any rate. You also have to make sure that people understand that older units seldom only have one problem. There are times when you just can't win simply because they chose you. It was worse when I was running a shop and had to deal with people even though they made the little hairs stand up on the back of the ole neck. Doing warranty is all about that.
I do have to say that most people are good to deal with. In fact, most can see when you do extra and are happy with that. In this case, not even close.
At the end of the day, I suppose I am calmer now. The one guy only ever brought me older junky stuff that he needed (wanted?) really fast. If he wasn't helping me a bit, I would have refused these jobs. That will be how I decide in the future. Now I don't have the stress these guys created.
I do have a few people who appreciate the extra work I do and have been very understanding of my really slow turnaround time. Those people will always get more than they pay for from me. Everyone else is going to have to settle for "more than fair" from me.
I don't know if I'll continue to try and fix hacked or badly serviced units anymore. They really aren't worth the trouble and those customers may be more problematic.
To a better New Year for everyone. May all your service jobs be straight forward and clean. Also, avoid having to appear in court. The general quality level of judges in small claims is not high usually. Anything can happen. Don't roll the dice, and be more than fair in mediation.
-Chris
Hi theAnonymous1, George,
Not only has this happened to me in the past, it just happened again - a double shot with two people at once (friends, of course - each other, not me!).
One guy rammed a pair of crappy Sony receivers down my throat (7045's, early solid state), both required some light mods and expected fixes. The last was one of those Sony switching power supply units that had been improperly serviced by another person. It lasted a couple months before failing spectacularly. Then it went to another service shop before me. After months of tracking down each fault and rebuilding the power supply the guy went nutty on me. So after rebuilding it completely, he demanded it back just before it really was finished. We're talking days here folks. I have told him that I would finish it as promised for a $100 fee he seems to be fixed on. In fairness, he was helping me reorganize the basement here, which is why I felt he deserved a favor.
The second concluded just about an hour ago - and I saw this thread and decided to chime in. Guy #2 bought a Counterpoint SA-3.1 after I warned him about power supply issues. Of course, it had been completely hacked to the point where even the signal wiring was totally messed up - and the grounding! I wish I could show you pictures, I'll look. I repaired the damaged areas, repaired the wiring and recreated the signal grounds. The HV supply and heater supply were both toast, so fixed and modified slightly for greater reliability. The HV regulator was operating on the actual edge of the SOA curve, at 25 C°! Another R-C section helped along with a better part for the job. This lasted for many months (since June), then it failed. (He too was playing with tubes, and so was in there himself). It seems one of the post regulator filter caps shorted (tested fine way back so I didn't replace all 5 200 uF at 250 VDC), it didn't seem like that would be a problem and he wanted to save money (odd that way - right?). As it turns out, nothing in my repair failed and some protective measures even helped prevent huge damage. I thought the HV pass transistor had shorted, but it tests okay. Therefore I'm reasonable sure something shorted between the heat sink (PCB finger type) and the output from the reg circuit. The zener stack survived as well. So the mods worked as they were designed to.
His ultimatum? Fix it for $25 or less. This is with a huge amount of electrolyte everywhere inside! Days before I had dealt with his friend, so this was clearly a group effort. He told me to scrap it as he didn't want it back. Looking into the unit further proved that this was in fact the right course of action. Even the volume and balance controls got electrolyte inside! It's toast - or a project. I think I'll see if I can fix it during spare time. If I can get the supplies and audio stuff running, I might invest into a new volume and balance control set. That is a ways off, let me tell you!
I think these situations come about when you have a service industry with a well deserved poor reputation due to some people out there. Then just add someone who feels entitled, or has been burned before and you get a situation where the "client" will take an opportunity to "get back" at the industry. That's even though the person they are dealing with has not done them wrong in any way. Not that I know of at any rate. You also have to make sure that people understand that older units seldom only have one problem. There are times when you just can't win simply because they chose you. It was worse when I was running a shop and had to deal with people even though they made the little hairs stand up on the back of the ole neck. Doing warranty is all about that.
I do have to say that most people are good to deal with. In fact, most can see when you do extra and are happy with that. In this case, not even close.
At the end of the day, I suppose I am calmer now. The one guy only ever brought me older junky stuff that he needed (wanted?) really fast. If he wasn't helping me a bit, I would have refused these jobs. That will be how I decide in the future. Now I don't have the stress these guys created.
I do have a few people who appreciate the extra work I do and have been very understanding of my really slow turnaround time. Those people will always get more than they pay for from me. Everyone else is going to have to settle for "more than fair" from me.
I don't know if I'll continue to try and fix hacked or badly serviced units anymore. They really aren't worth the trouble and those customers may be more problematic.
To a better New Year for everyone. May all your service jobs be straight forward and clean. Also, avoid having to appear in court. The general quality level of judges in small claims is not high usually. Anything can happen. Don't roll the dice, and be more than fair in mediation.
-Chris
Sure Cal,
They are well protected were they are. I have succeeded in cleaning up a lot from my work area and locating some of my old notes from servicing these in the past (that I didn't think I would actually need ever again!). Basically, I will examine my notes along with the schematics and settle on a plan of attack for your amps. We have the benefit of greater knowledge on these designs than we had back then when they were under warranty, and even better knowledge as to what makes amps sound bad sometimes. I want to incorporate the newer triac firing designs, and the current triacs for greater reliability. This should also reduce or eliminate some cycle skipping that these amps do from time to time.
Because these can not be easily run when they are in a state where you can get to the amp sections, it's more a case of stripping them down, finding dead stuff to replace, make changes and reassemble and test. I think I can run the amps while they are out of the chassis, but not completely as they are designed to run. I am looking at these as both a personal challenge and something to help out a pretty decent guy. You might know him.
One thing you really don't want to do is take these things apart many times. That's not good for the amp, or the technician involved!
-Chris
They are well protected were they are. I have succeeded in cleaning up a lot from my work area and locating some of my old notes from servicing these in the past (that I didn't think I would actually need ever again!). Basically, I will examine my notes along with the schematics and settle on a plan of attack for your amps. We have the benefit of greater knowledge on these designs than we had back then when they were under warranty, and even better knowledge as to what makes amps sound bad sometimes. I want to incorporate the newer triac firing designs, and the current triacs for greater reliability. This should also reduce or eliminate some cycle skipping that these amps do from time to time.
Because these can not be easily run when they are in a state where you can get to the amp sections, it's more a case of stripping them down, finding dead stuff to replace, make changes and reassemble and test. I think I can run the amps while they are out of the chassis, but not completely as they are designed to run. I am looking at these as both a personal challenge and something to help out a pretty decent guy. You might know him.
One thing you really don't want to do is take these things apart many times. That's not good for the amp, or the technician involved!
-Chris
You know there used to be a period of time in my life where people would go into a music store, buy an amp, and then pay me to VOID ITS WARANTEE in rather spectacular ways. Yes I violated brand new equipment, got paid for doing it, and the customers are all happy repeat customers. This was over 10 years ago and I still hear about an old amp still in use.
You are trying to makr monry by fixing stuff. I make money breaking stuff.
You are trying to makr monry by fixing stuff. I make money breaking stuff.
I must admit that those were the days before DSP effects boxes and amp simulators. I wonder if they have a preset for an old Fender P-P amp with one 6L6GC and one EL34. I thought it sounded like %$#* but mister metalhead loved it when pushed to near meltdown with a stomp box.
I have been disconnected from the guitar amp world for about 15 years now. It just took up too much of my time.
I have played with Cubase; soon realized that it wasn't fun spending an hour with the computer to edit ten minutes of music. Nowadays if I want to record something i do it on tape. My muse is getting sillier and sillier so there isn't much worth recording anyway.
Crappy tone. A good guitar and a good amp, that's all I need; if you can't get good sounds with a simple setup...
The thing I have fallen foul of is intending to help someone out with advice, and then having a box full of bits and a few scraps of paper turn up in the post. Interpreting/fault-finding/modifying someone else's crappy bit of veroboard that is not constructed to your own standards is soul destroying. You are then left with the choice of trying to understand the existing 'circuit' and working with it, or starting from scratch. What was intended to be some back-of-the-envelope advice has turned into several weekends' work - and I'm usually too nice to say 'no'!
That's all I use myself, but I am not trying to impress anyone or wow a crowd. Back when I worked on guitar amps there were zillions of local musicians all playing the same music. There were effects boxes, but there were only a few really different sounds. The DSP thingies were just showing up and didn't sound too good. In order to get booked you needed a gimick, a different sound, or a local following. There were guitar gurus who could work magic on the instrument itself, and there were amp wizards who tweaked amps to get a unique sound.
I just liked to tinker and try stuff that no one else woud try like dissimilar tubes in a P-P amp. Someone heard one of my amps and had to have one. After a while I was modding and making guitar amps. You can't make too many, or your tone isn't unique any more. Sooner or later one of the more established wizards will figure out what you do and copy it.
Tubelab started out the same way. I built myself an amp (the first Tubelab SE) then I built one for a friend. Then I built a few more. Before long I couldn't make enough amps so I sold the boards and parts to friends. I took the boards to the internet about 5 years ago. 2008 was the best year (Tubelab Inc actually showed a profit) but it's been all downhill since then. It could be the bad economy, or the uniqueness could have worn off.
I think it's both. Two years ago the tubes forum was filled with SET projects, now you see SEP amps and PP amps, occasionally a SET shows up.
Yeah, I have done that too. My latest guitar amp has a 717 input and 6SN7 phase splitter just to try something different. It really is, when cranked it picks up the sound of my lighter.
I didn't know these tubes were microphonic, this is the price you pay when you get into uncharted territory.
Hi George,
Probably a bit of both.
Still, fads wear off for weekend warriors, and they can't accept that two different ideas are both good, but for different reasons. In guitar land, it's all about creating a sound. The new kids on the block may actually believe that an effects unit can recreate the sound of a Fender Twin, or Champ, or whatever. We both know that simply isn't true as yet. Besides, there is that satisfaction that comes from that little Champ as you play away for yourself. It's pretty obvious that I like Fender amps, but maybe it's really more like I don't care for Marshal products. (that's the truth of it folks) I have dealt more with Fenders up here near Toronto, but also Hiwatt and Garnet, plus the newer Seymore-Duncan and Yamaha amps. They are all nice when played well in a style that suits them.
Financial success for you may simply be in creating nice amps in both SE and PP types. Smaller "practice" amps would seem to be a great market. It's a shame to power up a Fender Twin, only for practice. Even though you can get one heck of a range of sounds from that amp. An expressive little 14 watt PP with a two spring reverb might be just the ticket for the older guys to climb back onto, and the new kids to discover. Give 'em what they want in tone stack, channels and other toys in a low powered package. 50+ watts are hard to keep down to get "that sound" just right.
Have a great year George, you deserve it.
-Chris
Probably a bit of both.
Still, fads wear off for weekend warriors, and they can't accept that two different ideas are both good, but for different reasons. In guitar land, it's all about creating a sound. The new kids on the block may actually believe that an effects unit can recreate the sound of a Fender Twin, or Champ, or whatever. We both know that simply isn't true as yet. Besides, there is that satisfaction that comes from that little Champ as you play away for yourself. It's pretty obvious that I like Fender amps, but maybe it's really more like I don't care for Marshal products. (that's the truth of it folks) I have dealt more with Fenders up here near Toronto, but also Hiwatt and Garnet, plus the newer Seymore-Duncan and Yamaha amps. They are all nice when played well in a style that suits them.
Financial success for you may simply be in creating nice amps in both SE and PP types. Smaller "practice" amps would seem to be a great market. It's a shame to power up a Fender Twin, only for practice. Even though you can get one heck of a range of sounds from that amp. An expressive little 14 watt PP with a two spring reverb might be just the ticket for the older guys to climb back onto, and the new kids to discover. Give 'em what they want in tone stack, channels and other toys in a low powered package. 50+ watts are hard to keep down to get "that sound" just right.
Have a great year George, you deserve it.
-Chris
A friend recently gave me a dead Park 100 watt lead amp. Park is one of the brands that Jim Marshall sold under to bypass his distribution contract. I haven't had time to play with it yet.
Tubelab has shown a profit in only 1 of its 6 years. This is OK as long as I still have my day job, and the losses don't get out of hand.
I have thought about building guitar amps again, or maybe making a PC board design, but I don't get much interest. I must have got a hundred emails asking for the Simple P-P, and now that it is here I have sold about 20 boards. I had 100 of them made. I did build a P-P guitar amp that used a Simple SE board. It made about 50 watts. Like you said it sounds great when you turn it to 11, but on 1 it's just too clean and lacks expression.
It looks like this year is going to be more of the same. Long hours at work trying to keep my job, and Sherri is away staying with her termiinally ill mom.
Hi George,
I wish you and Sherri (plus her mom) luck. The only thing you can really hope for is that she doesn't suffer too much. I've seen family members take far too long to die. It's not wrong to try and avoid what amounts to torture. My personal viewpoint.
I think you could be very successful with a 12 ~ 14 watt PP with a dirty channel.
Is that PP board on your web site? I was planning on building my daughter a PP guitar amp (low power). Since I haven't found an affordable "dead thing" to rebuild yet, and other issues, I may have to go that route. My plans were originally for a turret board or terminal strips. I haven't even started yet. 6BQ5s? Sounds more like 5881A types pushed, or 6L6GCs loafing along. EL34's are too thirsty for heater current for my tastes (again, a personal thing). I feel as if the 6L6GC has more punch when you want it. YMMV I guess.
Honestly, re-biasing the tone stack or first amp might dirty it up enough for some tastes. Others like clean and simply signal stage over-drive to achieve more crunch.
-Chris
I wish you and Sherri (plus her mom) luck. The only thing you can really hope for is that she doesn't suffer too much. I've seen family members take far too long to die. It's not wrong to try and avoid what amounts to torture. My personal viewpoint.
I think you could be very successful with a 12 ~ 14 watt PP with a dirty channel.
Is that PP board on your web site? I was planning on building my daughter a PP guitar amp (low power). Since I haven't found an affordable "dead thing" to rebuild yet, and other issues, I may have to go that route. My plans were originally for a turret board or terminal strips. I haven't even started yet. 6BQ5s? Sounds more like 5881A types pushed, or 6L6GCs loafing along. EL34's are too thirsty for heater current for my tastes (again, a personal thing). I feel as if the 6L6GC has more punch when you want it. YMMV I guess.
Honestly, re-biasing the tone stack or first amp might dirty it up enough for some tastes. Others like clean and simply signal stage over-drive to achieve more crunch.
-Chris
Last edited:
This is done and over with now. I refunded the other party the original cost of all parts plus the cost of shipping both ways.
They offered to give me a generous "discount" on the amount refunded due the time and effort I spent on the project. I never had any intention of turning a profit from this person and I kind of took it as a bit of an insult for whatever reason. I don't need or want their money.
BTW, I fixed the item within 20 minutes of it being returned to me with a single $9 part.
I'm just glad the police didn't show up at my door and beat and arrest me for the clear threats that were made in this thread toward this person and his family. They were genuinely scared for their life......... No really, I'm not kidding you; threats of police action were made toward me based solely on the content of this thread.
I would really like to thank everyone here for throwing me such a wonderful pity party. I was told I was doing an outstanding job of playing the victim. I really appreciate the opportunity this forum has given me to waste so much time and money just to make people feel sorry for me. Thank you all.
If anyone has anything negative to say about the other person who is clearly identified in this threadrolleyes - be careful, they are watching. You never know when they might sue you or send the police to your house. 
They offered to give me a generous "discount" on the amount refunded due the time and effort I spent on the project. I never had any intention of turning a profit from this person and I kind of took it as a bit of an insult for whatever reason. I don't need or want their money.
BTW, I fixed the item within 20 minutes of it being returned to me with a single $9 part.
I'm just glad the police didn't show up at my door and beat and arrest me for the clear threats that were made in this thread toward this person and his family. They were genuinely scared for their life......... No really, I'm not kidding you; threats of police action were made toward me based solely on the content of this thread.
I would really like to thank everyone here for throwing me such a wonderful pity party. I was told I was doing an outstanding job of playing the victim. I really appreciate the opportunity this forum has given me to waste so much time and money just to make people feel sorry for me. Thank you all.
If anyone has anything negative to say about the other person who is clearly identified in this thread
rolleyes - be careful, they are watching. You never know when they might sue you or send the police to your house. 
I don't think it was anything he said, but some of the comments of others in support of him..
Sounds all too disturbingly familiar, my losses at the end of my full time business were astronomical and that is why I am no longer commercially active - some books and design commissions aside.
You really do need the day job to have a small audio business IMO, and in lossy years the losses if moderate can usually be offset against taxes. Full time is a different matter, needs to break even and make a little extra from time to time.
My heart goes out to you and your's wrt to your mother in law - my wife's mom died almost 3 yrs ago of cancer, rapid, brutal, and untreatable, and it was a very difficult time for both of us. She is missed on a daily basis..
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.