Just make sure he has his sleeves rolled up first
As far as I know, SY always gives comprehensive explanations to support his claims.
sing along now! "Oh you can't pass heat from the cooler to the hotter, you can try it if you like but you far better notta..."
Flanders and Swann
Flanders and Swann
You win the prize for simple, succint, and correct. The trolls can read chapter 44 and 45 in the Feynman Lectures.
And my dear Russio-Californian friend can read about accessible chemical and evolutionary pathways in multiple sources, starting with Mayr. There are no cat-dogs, either. Here's one for you to consider, Anatoliy: there is no chemical or physical reaction ever found, not one, zip, nada, in a living organism that violates any of the chemical or physical laws that govern all other matter.
Yes it would be better but I think these guys only enjoy small doses. Anyway, funny mixture: we've got the armchair philosopher, the science man, the sleepy man, the man who doesn't exist... and so on.
Glad to see this forum become alive, all those creative juices flowing...
I believe that there are many books of explanations of how polyethylene can turn into a live reproductive cell, but can't you simply explain how it may start? Just for us, for Dummies!
Given your initial condition ("without any help from a live cell"), I'd love to know the books you're talking about.
Given an organic soup (not polyethylene) and an energy input, there's lots of hypothesizing about how self organization may have led to the first reproducing cells, but that aspect of science is still a rich area for discovery, and the exact pathway that occurred on prebiotic Earth may well never be known with certainty. But maybe it will.
What is perfectly well established is the total lack of any biological process that violates the basic physical and chemical laws governing all matter. Maybe someone will find one someday, but despite the close examination of millions of these processes, it hasn't happened and that's not where I'd put my money.
So, you mean that the theory is right, but it can't be proven experimentally?
Can you remember one more theory that can't be proven experimentally, but still exist, and is accepted as valid?
I've already wrote about experimentally obtained facts that people refuse because no theory exist that can explain them...
Where is the logic?
The word "theory" is yours, not mine. The correct term for this is "hypothesis." There are many hypotheses that have not yet been experimentally verified (e.g., string "theory") and promoted to the level of theory. What makes them valid hypotheses is that they are subject to falsification, they do not invoke extra-physical phenomena, and they lead to a program.
Chemical origins of life are valid hypotheses (there are many of them) because they can be falsified (e.g., something goes on in life forms which can be shown to violate basic physical law, an alien space helmet is found in prebiotic strata, the trillionth digits of pi suddenly spell out in binary, "No kidding, I created life ex nihilo, Sincerely, Jahweh"...), all life processes conform to the basic laws of physics, there is no supernatural means needed, and different potential pathways can be (and are) routinely studied in the lab and in the field.
More than "a bit," but it's really one of the most exciting frontiers in experimental science right now. Although I have a better-than-average understanding of self-assembling systems, I deeply regret that I didn't direct my early research efforts in that direction and become an expert in that area (electrical properties of polymers and spectroscopy seemed so much more interesting at the time!). My loss.
No, because a) it's a straw man (analogous to the creationists who insist that unless someone produces a cat-dog, natural selection is not a valid theory- no one believes that that's the pathway for life origins) and b) if everything were known about life origins, it wouldn't be interesting science (which it very much is).
Still waiting for ONE example of a biological process that doesn't comport with known chemistry and physics...
Still waiting for ONE example of a biological process that doesn't comport with known chemistry and physics...
Some processes tend to homeostasis and some substances tend to self replication. After some billions of years and unimaginable amounts of reiteration, interesting and very complex things might arise.
No violations of basic physics required.
I think a thread on audio misconceptions might be darned interesting if folk stuck to basics.
I've often thought that the asymmetrical structure of the brain and the concommitant asymmetry of generalist vision (experience) and specific logical focus (science) can lead to great misunderstandings since translation back and forth from metaphor (experiential vocabulary) to factual statement (scientific vocabulary) is fraught with difficulty due to few agreed on physical references common to both..
In audio would it be that difficult to establish those references?
No violations of basic physics required.
I think a thread on audio misconceptions might be darned interesting if folk stuck to basics.
I've often thought that the asymmetrical structure of the brain and the concommitant asymmetry of generalist vision (experience) and specific logical focus (science) can lead to great misunderstandings since translation back and forth from metaphor (experiential vocabulary) to factual statement (scientific vocabulary) is fraught with difficulty due to few agreed on physical references common to both..
In audio would it be that difficult to establish those references?
No, please put your straw man back where you brought it from. I asked you a valid question, but you have no answer.
How it can comport at all with what can not describe it in details?
I'm still waiting for the description for dummies. How random combination of molecules can result in reproductive cell that does not follow main law of thermodynamics and stays alive and reproductive.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.