Quote above from (p. 6-7):
http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/126969.pdf
We may have a hard time with that but this is I think proper “engineering” (that is, if relevant target specifications can be set through such a research and drivers can be thus easily fabricated, with a low price tag).
George
Speakers are electronic parts...
It was an image as loudspeakers characteristics, as well as electronic characteristics (impedance mostly) can change the behavior of any wiring.
If you have to deal with capacitive long wires loads, as an example, what did-you do ? Try to change the building for shorter wires, or change the output stage for it can drive such loads ?
...There is a lot to do to improve electronic designs for better noise, better bandwidth/phase, less distortion, less EMI problems, less output impedance etc... things we can measure as imperfect than to play with magical stuff that nobody can measure or justify by numbers or theory and even blind tests.
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Makes sense to me. I was just lamenting the fact that what we have to deal with - dynamic driver - is so messed up to begin with and we still cant seem to make it significantly better than what we have now. This cure proposed is fine and maybe it will require all their better systems to have such and amp included in a speaker. but it aint cheaper. Nor widely available. yet. Does JBL have a sellable, working product using these concepets?
JC, you prepared to put up Blowtorch against unspecified competition in an ABC Blind Listening Test?
This isn't speakers so won't cost $50k to arrange properly. You set up Blowtorch with your choice of ancillaries and have a person of your choice personally verify the 'switching' arrangements don't degrade the clarity & definition. You choose the Listening Panel and they choose their own music. Everyone tested individually and can take up to a day to rate the 3 devices. They can choose to have instant switching or extended sessions. Some people may be asked to repeat their test. (This is a good sign and usually indicates they may be true golden pinnae)
I suggest John Atkinson as one of your panel but everyone can remain anonymous to protect the guilty. Results to be posted in several forums and perhaps in Stereophile.
The Dynamic Duo, L & V are retired and I'm sure can be persuaded to supervise.
Forfeit to be decided, may be $1k donation or a case of wine to a charity of the winner's choice. Someone has to bankroll my side but my charity is the Benevolent Society for Deaf Speaker Designers and if I win, I'll be happy with a single bottle of Burgundy or Sauternes and the rest can go to your charity. Young wine will do.
Christophe, lets see if he really has courage
+
You may be right that things don’t go forward fast enough in this field. Leo Beranek had pointed out that too.
Although perception masking effects and critical bands were known as far back as your ancient Kellog’s design, although hard facts were verified and firm algorithms established before 1970, we still face today the label “this site is under construction”.
As usual, the revolutionary wave will come through the mass gadget market and will hit the white elephants with a delay.
The research going on now aims toward how existing theoretical knowledge can be cheaply (mass manufacturing)embedded into small size products with low power demands.
The elephants will serve later as repackagers of “delux” oversized versions of the same (save some fancy names and appropriate de-mything).
The technological products will be cheap nevertheless and widely available (or just because of this. Remember, video card, sound card…)
I don’t know if fragments of all this have entered the large driver’s manufacturing world.
But I don’t think that JBL is the leader on this promising field (don’t be fooled by the presentation).
I remember a link by Mr. Curl on a current JBL compression driver some days ago. I smiled as I had just read a Bell’s 1928 article http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol07-1928/articles/bstj7-1-140.pdf , as well as Beranek’s remarks over the construction. (see attachment)
George
Attachments
No idea, please define the meaning of direction for an AC signal and please what did Dick Heyser say????
Jack Bybee and I just had a BIG LAUGH on the phone about wire quality re Dick Sequerra. Be careful, Scott, or I will give you even newer input for you to ponder. '-) I told Jack that you have ENOUGH on your plate, and new input would just be teasing. Don't make me regret, holding it back from you.
Digital Room Correction (DRC) -
Re DRC -- this similar in character -- finding advanced ways to hide speaker distortion. [The cost to develop and impliment may be more than the cost to improve the loudspeaker.] Although, I guess from all the work being done on ways to hide the gross distortion, that inherantly better dynamic drivers is at a dead end now - reducing distortion in dynamic drivers is as far as we can go for all practical purposes thus these manuevers. No doubt it can make really cheap speakers sound better.
The method is bothersome to those wanting more dynamics and less compression, and bass at low distortion.... ".... a second goal ... is to develop an algorrithm that varies the amount of bass fed to the loudspeaker as a function of playback level so that the best possible sound is obtained." I dont think so... Not for me. It could raise the level of performance at the low end and close the wide performance gap between the 98 and the 2 percenters. Thx- RNMarsh
Re DRC -- this similar in character -- finding advanced ways to hide speaker distortion. [The cost to develop and impliment may be more than the cost to improve the loudspeaker.] Although, I guess from all the work being done on ways to hide the gross distortion, that inherantly better dynamic drivers is at a dead end now - reducing distortion in dynamic drivers is as far as we can go for all practical purposes thus these manuevers. No doubt it can make really cheap speakers sound better.
The method is bothersome to those wanting more dynamics and less compression, and bass at low distortion.... ".... a second goal ... is to develop an algorrithm that varies the amount of bass fed to the loudspeaker as a function of playback level so that the best possible sound is obtained." I dont think so... Not for me. It could raise the level of performance at the low end and close the wide performance gap between the 98 and the 2 percenters. Thx- RNMarsh
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Christophe, lets see if he really has courage
Kgrlee
When I read J.Curl latest tribune to the perfect wire, I felt the need to protest for the elitism. I didn’t, as it would be the nth time (i.e. pointless).
On the other hand, I don’t think that you act wisely.
Mr Curl has not stepped back in real-life hard confrontations.
He has proved that he has courage. Do a reading of his professional life.
George
Signal propagates as a field along the wire
Dielectric's mystery solved
Old Fathers were teaching differently:
Signal propagates as a field within the dielectric(s), terminating at the wires (or confined by them, or guided by them). The higher the wire conductivity, the less the field loss (drain). But no point to fight for IACS 99.999%. IACS conductivity 99.99% is OK. They focused on what happens between the wires (dielectrics) instead.
George
Mr. Curl
Copper crystals and their orientation due to the way wires are manufactured, was and is observable through optical microscopes after metallographic preparation.
No need for x-ray diffraction techniques.
But you are right. Scott may really know a few things about wires (e.g. “electron wind”)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=introduction%20to%20electromigration-aware%20physical%20design&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.90.6609%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ei=fRaoUOGbCcm7hAe1qYDICg&usg=AFQjCNEEF6ph231_GKpB1ITq8j6v8O9QKg
George
Again, we're having a problem considering connecting cable as being a component. It is not perfect, it does have electrical properties, and in particular it has 2nd order material related problems. People who have to connect microphones to long leads would not be happy if told they had to use any old cable that was on hand, and the issues in audio reproduction are in the same realm. Of course, with the former a "problem" is obvious, someone steps on a cord and unpleasant sounds emerge from the speaker. Well, just consider that the unpleasantness is not obvious, it's relatively low level, and constant, just enough to make one version of a system sound better than another, with focused listening.
I can instantly "ruin" the quality of sound from my system by adjusting how any of the cables are precisely set up within their environment, although nothing in the normal electrical sense has altered one iota. But, what will have been altered is how the materials of the cable and their environment interact.
What do I mean by "ruin"? That the sound will go from something that can be run indefinitely at high volumes and be pleasurable, to that increasingly irritating, typical hifi sound that makes one turn down the volume control after a short period of time ...
Frank
Also, I would be interested in comments from those expert in this field, on this situation: a multi-strand, say 256 strands, cable connects two points, and for whatever reason a single strand at one end goes, or is open circuit -- less than perfect soldering, metal fatigue from too much handling, whatever. Now, to me that looks like a pretty good RF antenna, which to some degree is shorted out by resting against other bits of copper. Depending on vibration, level of oxidising, and just about everything else you can think of.
Is there a definitive answer on what happens here?
Frank
Is there a definitive answer on what happens here?
Frank
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