John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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rise time -

Line arrays and other planar speakers like electrostatics sound so realistically because of the same reason. Especially when the room is properly treated, so good records reveal reverberation of concert halls.

The leading edge or rise time of the waveform is very fast with planar and elctrostatics and that seems to be important in hearing - localization etc - But these type drivers have historically been under damped and though they start fast they dont stop as well. but it doesnt seem to matter as much as the start or rise time. -RNM
 
It appears to me that the problem exists because the measured data goes against thier listening perceptions. Until, that is resolved to thier satisfaction, explaining FFT et al is a waste of time on them. Perceptions Are a person's reality. So, in affect you are denying thier reality... which will never be accepted by many. we need a new straegy. IMO.

but it appears that is their own misunderstanding that is the cause for the objections

the inaccurate projection that Fourier Series, FFT, DFT is used by engineers to somehow "fully explain" music perception

when the idea that it should is their own private construct - not what the EEs, anyone conversant in the signal theory math, psychoacoustics claim for the tool for at all
 
It appears to me that the problem exists because the measured data goes against thier listening perceptions.
No, it does not. What is against, it's interpretation.

Edit: let me explain. FFT plot is very useful tool to check what kind of distortions do I get, and how they change with signal level. But I can't imagine why would I need FFT plot of a noise or real music, except when I want to synthesize sounds of some certain instruments.
 
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but it appears that is their own misunderstanding that is the cause for the objections

the inaccurate projection that Fourier Series, FFT, DFT is used by engineers to somehow "fully explain" music perception

when the idea that it should is their own private construct - not what the EEs, anyone conversant in the signal theory math, psychoacoustics claim for the tool for at all

Yes. And it hasnt been an effective approach for non-science/math majors ! We need a plan 'B'. Or we are stalled and doomed forever. I want more progress --- the lay public think everything from the microphone to the playback amp measures fine within very small differences. Then why doesnt it sound like real music if its so perfect. That is the perception and the reality of the consumer... and the crux of the mistrust and suspicion - there Must be something wrong with the test, the data, something... becuase it doesnt sound right yet - as in real life. Their reality/perception doesnt match the claims no matter how much proof you have. Therefore the two camps will go on for more decades.

So, its a multi-pronged approach -- to teach more effectively and to actually learn how to make the music more realisticto them... rather than plane old, same old HiFi. Can we learn to do both?
 
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I want more progress --- the lay public think everything from the microphone to the playback amp measures fine. Then why doesnt it sound like real music if its so perfect.

Because of the stereo paradigm, the mikes, the studio processing, production decisions (especially compression, "sweetening," and EQ), the speakers, and the rooms. If you attach two fine threads to either end of a sturdy chain and then find that the overall tensile strength is poor, don't whine about the metallurgical properties of steel and the lack of progress in steel research, replace the threads with something stronger.

Unless of course you're trying to sell chain and need to differentiate your product.:D
 
The leading edge or rise time of the waveform is very fast with planar and elctrostatics and that seems to be important in hearing - localization etc - But these type drivers have historically been under damped and though they start fast they dont stop as well. but it doesnt seem to matter as much as the start or rise time.


I still did not have time to finish my experiment with line arrays made from dynamic microphone capsules. I have a gut feeling they will sound great, especially when driven by transformerless tube amp. :)
 
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No, it does not. What is against, it's interpretation.

.

Yes. The interpretation may not be the truth as measured. But it doesnt matter to the listener. That is my point. It doesnt matter to them. You arent being affective that way. people have to live with and trust their perceptions and they Must trust them to survive.... Its thier perceptions... learned and innate you are dealing with. We need to find a better way of relating to perceptions. or explaining them to thier satisfaction.

Just to make an analogy that isnt intended to be true or accurate but trying to get a concept across here to bridge the gap ---- If the truth is a rotating figure is 2D. It doesnt matter to the viewer who sees it as 3D. it will only be seen as 3D to most normal people. Interesting science perhaps but doesnt relate nor change the perception of the viewer.

-RNM
 
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Because of the stereo paradigm, the mikes, the studio processing, production decisions (especially compression, "sweetening," and EQ), the speakers, and the rooms. If you attach two fine threads to either end of a sturdy chain and then find that the overall tensile strength is poor, don't whine about the metallurgical properties of steel and the lack of progress in steel research, replace the threads with something stronger.

Unless of course you're trying to sell chain and need to differentiate your product.:D

Then That is what to teach... what parts do the most damage would be helpful. And, then what would be better and do it. The public has been waiting. me too. I want more realistic sound for my $$. can we start doing that?

Just short-cutting the in between stuff (EQ, Compresssion etal) -- direct download from master tapes takes care of that and is growing in popularity by 'early adopters'. That helps a lot even with 2 - 3 channels. But there's more work to be done. Thx, RNM
 
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Yes. The interpretation may not be the truth as measured. But it doesnt matter to the listener. That is my point. It doesnt matter to them.

Like it does not matter to me what is FFT plot of a musical signal.

You arent being affective that way.

Which way? Checking what kind of distortions dominate in my gear, on different levels, using FFT plot? No, I am very effective when am doing that. But it is just one of tools, that goes after oscilloscope and multimeter.
 
Then That is what to teach... what parts do the most damage would be helpful.

Like in medicine, the same symptom can lead to different diagnoses. What damages mostly my amps is obviously different from what damages mostly your amps. "It does not sound real" equals to "I don't feel well". Then the doctor ask questions, do measurements, and orders specific tests. The same here.
 
I want more realistic sound for my $$. can we start doing that?

You may. Most people don't. That's the problem. When I make recordings, they sound quite realistic compared to stuff from the studios, but they are utterly incapable of competing commercially with the highly compressed stuff that most people listen to. Once you get used to Tang, orange juice tastes funny.
 
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Which way? Checking what kind of distortions dominate in my gear, on different levels, using FFT plot? No, I am very effective when am doing that. But it is just one of tools, that goes after oscilloscope and multimeter.

Sigh..... this way -> what you do to design a product nor the tests involved. Unless you can successfully relate them to their perceptions, you wont be convincing. Just a fact of life. Fortunately for those in science for a living it isnt an issue. But if you want to sell an idea or product, you have to be convincing and that means considering thier perceptions. So how do you be true and honest and still convincing to the lay public listener?
 
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The one and only
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You should see one of my latest designs! Paralleled fets, 50/channel, rows of resistors...

I direct your attention to the Beast With a Thousand Jfets

(actually somewhat more than a thousand pairs of 2SK170 / 2SJ74)

:cool:
 

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