John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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we do however like to be able to reproduce those phenomena under controlled conditions with statistically significant results - preferably with independent replications

it would even be acceptable for just a subset of the “golden ears” population to be able to demonstrate any one of their “phenomena” in front of “objective” observers under controlled conditions to spark new perceptual research
 
It could be suggested that some 'subjectivists' discard any explanation, preferring instead to believe that there is no current explanation. This enables them to retain their mysticism.

One of the features of the placebo effect is that it still works even when people are aware of it. It works even better when people deny it. For some reason some people seem to think that they are immune from it, so they get very annoyed when it is mentioned.

One way to test whether someone has good grounds for their views is to challenge them. The more angry their response the weaker is their case.
 
Have you ever considered that the real source of problems is the inferiority of 50 hz power compared to 60 hz power? More ripple at a lower frequency. More time between peaks to recharge power supply filter caps. What brand of motor-generator set sounds best to you. Have you considered 400 hz? I think the German company Pillar makes some fairly good ones.

I don't know if it's because of the mains frequency. I have no control over the local mains frequency. All I know is that there are audible differences between power outlets and power distributors from different makes, on my sound system, where I live.
 
Soundminded, have you ever conversed with Dr. Bose? Do you know anybody who has? If so, what pearls of wisdom did they convey that came from him?

As I recall you posted that he had personally demonstrated his 901 to you. Is my recollection of your posting wrong? Evidently he had nothing of interest to say to catch your attention....unlike Paul Klipsch who kept you amused for years. :)

The words I paraphrased from him came from his white paper. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of it anymore, at least I can't find it. There were ideas worth considering in it. I know most people do not like his products and probably don't like him even though they never met him. However, to dismiss everything he ever said or wrote would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think he was interviewed by one of the magazines some time back, maybe even Stereophile. I can't remember which mag it was. He talked about the difficulty of getting started. Love him or hate him, there is no denying that he was a commercial success in a very big way.
 
It is not so amusing because it is not true. Those who you call 'objectivists' do NOT discard any phenomena they cannot explain.

It should be clear for those who read these posts here, but maybe it needs to be restated once in a while again.

I am not assuming that you deliberately tell these lies but it gets harder and harder.

jan didden

Jan, those who write here that the differences I hear are all due to placebo effect, without knowing how I decide about the reality of those audible changes, are speculating in way that is anything but scientific.
 
I don't know if it's because of the mains frequency. I have no control over the local mains frequency. All I know is that there are audible differences between power outlets and power distributors from different makes, on my sound system, where I live.

And you haven't tried a motor alternator or static double conversion UPS yet? And you say everything counts? I just bought a nice one from Eaton for about $30,000. Excellent model. It's for a laboratory but it would work fine on a hi fi set. Now don't tell me you tried one of those cheap $300 line interactive UPSs and you didn't like it. That hardly counts.
 
... yes, and that includes you. That is the basic thing that you refuse to even contemplate, even if you know and acknowledge that the effect itself exist. Except for you, of course.

jan didden

How can you say that without knowing how I determine whether the audible differences I hear are real, or not? Such a statement, without knowing the procedure I take, is nothing but a speculation, as far from scientific approach as it can be.
 
we do however like to be able to reproduce those phenomena under controlled conditions with statistically significant results - preferably with independent replications

it would even be acceptable for just a subset of the “golden ears” population to be able to demonstrate any one of their “phenomena” in front of “objective” observers under controlled conditions to spark new perceptual research

I have no interest, neither in proving nor in demonstrating.
All I care about is the sound quality of my sound system, within the limits of my financial resources.
 
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Jan, those who write here that the differences I hear are all due to placebo effect, without knowing how I decide about the reality of those audible changes, are speculating in way that is anything but scientific.

BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT! Can't you get it right? First of all, the placebo effect and all its manifestations are scientifically proven and explained.
Secondly, to accept statements by you or anybody else any half-way intelligent person would want to have some evidence that the reported phenomenon actually DOES exist, and a good way is to do controlled tests.
Precisely because we want to ELIMINATE the placebo (and any other perception-related non-auditory clues).
As someone above said (jcx?), I wish someone came up with a good proof for an unlikely phenomenon. That would really be exciting, really be something to dig in!

jan didden
 
It could be suggested that some 'subjectivists' discard any explanation, preferring instead to believe that there is no current explanation. This enables them to retain their mysticism.

It could suggest that and it could suggest some other things.

So far it is you who claim that this is about mysticism, without any scientific evidence that the audible differences I speak about aren't real.

Don't you see how this statement of yours is far from any scientifically established fact?
 
we do however like to be able to reproduce those phenomena under controlled conditions with statistically significant results - preferably with independent replications

it would even be acceptable for just a subset of the “golden ears” population to be able to demonstrate any one of their “phenomena” in front of “objective” observers under controlled conditions to spark new perceptual research

This has been said for years, I see below you got one of the usual answers. I'd be happy with them peeking and me not. I could make up my own mind and finally know what they are talking about. Here I mainly mean things like precision resistors from different weeks being "obvious to anyone walking into the room".
 
real fact

Real is that you admit to spend cold hard cash on stuff like a +2C wall outlet, fancy power cables and interconnects.
Real also is that you admit having a limited budget to spend on your audio set.

Others are willing and able to spend a vast amount on gear, but reluctant to spend a dollar more on auxilliary stuff if there's no solid reasoning to do so.

Who cares what you think is real or not.
 
And you haven't tried a motor alternator or static double conversion UPS yet? And you say everything counts? I just bought a nice one from Eaton for about $30,000. Excellent model. It's for a laboratory but it would work fine on a hi fi set. Now don't tell me you tried one of those cheap $300 line interactive UPSs and you didn't like it. That hardly counts.

As I wrote, everything may have an effect. That is, various loudspeakers, amplifiers, cables, isolation transformers and even power outlets have an effect' or can have an effect. Now, not all amplifiers and not all power outlets sound different, though some of them do.

That doesn't mean that I tried everything out there. I don't have $30,000 for anything, so I'm not going to try anything outside my financial resources. However, within my budget I definitely try various things, without any prejudice about what may work and what cannot possibly work. I was sure that power distributors cannot have an effect on my system's sounds, until a friend of mine demonstrated to me that it does.
 
From experience I know that almost everything affects the sound of an audio system, though many times I don't know how and why. Even different power outlets have a big impact on the sound, though I have no clue why is it so.


What kind of power do you prefer listening to? I prefer nuclear power because it is highly analytical although I admit power from oil fired plants is more liquid. OTOH, power from coal fired plants can be rather grainy at times. And from batteries, absolutely chemical sounding, often very acidic.
 
What kind of power do you prefer listening to? I prefer nuclear power because it is highly analytical although I admit power from oil fired plants is more liquid. OTOH, power from coal fired plants can be rather grainy at times. And from batteries, absolutely chemical sounding, often very acidic.


I assumed your favorite source was from natural gas.

Solar works best, followed by hydroelectric as long as there are distortion correcting circuits following the generators.

If you look at the actual construction of mechanical devices used to produce electricity you will see there must be gaps (or areas of non uniform flux density) due to the physical limitations of construction.

Audioxpress magazine has covered this in the past one really good piece by Chuck Hansen and a longer series by some other idiot.
 
BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT! Can't you get it right? First of all, the placebo effect and all its manifestations are scientifically proven and explained.

I never said that the placebo effect isn't real, that it doesn't exist.

However, when someone says that the differences I hear are all due to the placebo effect, without knowing the procedure by which I determine audible differences – such a statement is a pure speculation, as far from scientific approach as it can be.

Secondly, to accept statements by you or anybody else any half-way intelligent person would want to have some evidence that the reported phenomenon actually DOES exist, and a good way is to do controlled tests.

Once more, I have no interest in neither proving anything nor convincing anyone.

I didn't ask anyone to accept what I wrote just because I wrote it.

I'm satisfied by knowing that the procedures I take eliminate the placebo effect.

However, stating that what I hear is only due to placebo effect, without knowing the procedure I take, doesn't demonstrate any intelligence. If anything it may point at fear from the unknown, fear from phenomena we didn't learn about, or didn't read about in our text books. Fear that our beliefs, to which we are attached so tenaciously, may be proven wrong.
 
Real is that you admit to spend cold hard cash on stuff like a +2C wall outlet, fancy power cables and interconnects.
Real also is that you admit having a limited budget to spend on your audio set.

Others are willing and able to spend a vast amount on gear, but reluctant to spend a dollar more on auxilliary stuff if there's no solid reasoning to do so.

Yes, there are people who will not spend an extra dollar unless their reasoning mechanism tells them it's reasonable.

I spend the limited amount of money I have on what have a beneficial effect on the sound of my system, effect determined by listening, not by reasoning.

Who cares what you think is real or not.

No one should care,
However, those who claim that what I hear is only due to placebo effect:
1. Do care, they care enough to comment about it.
2. Write statements based on nothing but their speculations.
 
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