Hello Simon
Does "warm" mean that they have a non neutral sound , and measured higher distortion.
Regards
Arthur
PS John Curl
Did you know DM68 Halcro amps that I have seen use Roderstein feedback resistors.
John,
I have managed samples of the naked Vishays, and the old stock Roderstein, where do I get 4 1K corning greys? I haven't seen any Corning's for 30 years.
A few more weeks and I hope to be finished with the tests.
Oh by the way, the resolution difference between a 100 ohm ten turn pot does show up between the classic wirewound and the gap filled hybrid!
So if any one else is reading this;
Have they used the Vishays and is there a warm sound to them?
Any other guesses as to what the most manufactured and widely copied sound equipment ever was?
For the record, I insisted on original Holco resistors for the Parasound HCA-2200 MK2, feedback resistors, back in 1992. All Vendetta Research products since 1984, or so, uses Roderstein resistors, as well as the CTC Blowtorch. The original Holco DID sound 'soft', that is why I chose it for the Parasound.
Everything so far has measurable distortion. Warm to me is one descriptive term that I associate with even order harmonics as the very dominant distortion. As to the relative level of distortion compared to other resistors I have not yet compiled enough data. Noise floor however seems quite low.
Soft I would associate with decreasing even higher order harmonics and very little odd ones.
Simon:
How much and what kind of distortion are you seeing? Do you have a way to quantify the systems base level of distortion? The old rule was that the residual distortion needed to be 5X lower than the measured distortion to be useful. The phase relationships between the distortion products can add or remove signals to a substantial degree. Also, when measuring at this level connections and nonlinear things nearby will affect it. RE points out that holding a pencil lead next to a resistor can increase its distortion at these levels.
I have used Vishay, Holco, Corning and Caddock resistors in different locations. I have never been able to identify a character to Vishay resistors (or measure distortion). Bob Crump felt that below 1K Vishays were the first choice and Caddock above 1K.
If you are seeing different noise floors between different resistors you need to be sure of all of the external effects. Without DC on the resistor the noise should be only a function of the resistance itself and its temperature.
If you would like I'll measure a few resistors from my collection for added noise and distortion and send them to you as a comparison to see if there is correlation in the methods.
How much and what kind of distortion are you seeing? Do you have a way to quantify the systems base level of distortion? The old rule was that the residual distortion needed to be 5X lower than the measured distortion to be useful. The phase relationships between the distortion products can add or remove signals to a substantial degree. Also, when measuring at this level connections and nonlinear things nearby will affect it. RE points out that holding a pencil lead next to a resistor can increase its distortion at these levels.
I have used Vishay, Holco, Corning and Caddock resistors in different locations. I have never been able to identify a character to Vishay resistors (or measure distortion). Bob Crump felt that below 1K Vishays were the first choice and Caddock above 1K.
If you are seeing different noise floors between different resistors you need to be sure of all of the external effects. Without DC on the resistor the noise should be only a function of the resistance itself and its temperature.
If you would like I'll measure a few resistors from my collection for added noise and distortion and send them to you as a comparison to see if there is correlation in the methods.
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i have so far tried Charcroft and Texas components naked Z foil.
I find them neutral sounding but without spit in the treble.
If that is warm then i want that.
What i found special with that type of resistor is a gain in micro dynamics. I hear a lot of new tiny details and somehow the sound is faster but you have more time to analise it.
It feels like time has expanded in both directions. It is a really strange phenomenon.
Even after the music is turned off i feel i have more time to spend. I hope this statement will not push me over to the subjectivist department too much.
There must be a measurable effect at work here. This has nothing to do with parapsychology.
I find them neutral sounding but without spit in the treble.
If that is warm then i want that.
What i found special with that type of resistor is a gain in micro dynamics. I hear a lot of new tiny details and somehow the sound is faster but you have more time to analise it.
It feels like time has expanded in both directions. It is a really strange phenomenon.
Even after the music is turned off i feel i have more time to spend. I hope this statement will not push me over to the subjectivist department too much.
There must be a measurable effect at work here. This has nothing to do with parapsychology.
I am using a Wheatstone bridge configuration. I use ten resistors. Four are series parallel to 1K in series with a single 1K, the same upside down for the other side. At the bottom is a 100 ohm WW 10T pot paralleled with a 25 ohm resistor to give me 20 ohms of balance adjustment. I do 4096 averages of a 32K FFT. Fundamental still shows a bit (-120) and third harmonic (-150) is the dominant distortion in this mode. Clean and clear above the noise floor which is -178 db, all re my test signal of 15.81 volts. (62.5 mw vs 250 mw rating.)
When I do the unbridged test which is 1 side matched and the other side is 2k in series with 1K I see lots of nice even harmonics which were nulled by the balanced bridge. I am still playing with the second test to see if it is a valid or useful measurement. These can be as high as -120 or even more, but these results are not yet solid, still playing.
All is housed inside an aluminum case built for the project. I do see some 180 hertz dirt at -170 but that is it.
As to instrument errors or distortion, I get different enough results from the different resistors to feel it is not an issue. When I run the signal down by 6 db the distortion drops by 12.
As to comparisons when I finish I will be glad to send you my test samples. I now have better that 20 sets of different types to play with.
That is what I would have expected based on the measurements. It is low noise, and the distortions I see are very musical and at a nice low level, but then I still have lots more samples to run. I do expect these resistors to be used at very low power levels below 25 mw for critical use.
I test at 250 and 1000 hertz and look at 100 to 10,000 hertz. Levels are 15.81 volts and 7.59 into the complete bridge.
I have some Corning 1001F, NA55, RN55D resistors.
But they look more Blue than Gray.
I also have some Green Cornings.
It is important to understand that Corning has made MANY precision resistors over the decades. The Corning Resistors that we first found that sounded pretty good, were GREY
in color. In the early '80's Corning switched to GREEN and Blue. Both new models are a compromise over the GREY. This is when we switched over to Roderstein in making Vendetta Research products and still use them, today, when possible.
in color. In the early '80's Corning switched to GREEN and Blue. Both new models are a compromise over the GREY. This is when we switched over to Roderstein in making Vendetta Research products and still use them, today, when possible.
About 25 years ago, I compared Corning Grey resistors with Corning Green and Blue resistors. I had the help and advice of a promising colleague, Scott Wurcer, in doing so, because he showed me how to make a adaptor for my Quan-Tech Noise Analyzer so that it could measure EXCESS noise. Green and Blue resistors were distinctly inferior with 10V DC applied to them, compared to the Corning Grey. This is but one difference, but at least it was measurable.
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