You see, it's just not all simple and pat...
As we've discussed perception is not fixed, it's a moving target.
Then there's the other side of it, which is that while it is not fixed, when listening to that fabulous system (be it yours or one you've just heard) one gets the "onion peeling" effect over time.
(Which is also another confounding factor in the vaunted DBT/ABX conundrum)
What's the "onion peeling effect"?
Well, you know what it is. It's the way that you can over time (short or long) notice things that were just not evident at the outset. Pretty much the same effect as may happen when observing a painting, you may notice details or brush strokes, colors... similarly when driving a car for the first time, you may notice the fine ride (assuming it has one), but after some time you begin to notice details of the way it handles, as well as sounds and noises - some of which you may not like at all.
One of the big problems is if and when one of those not-so-evident but definitely there aspects once identified becomes bloody annoying. Then what do you do?
Of course, a whole lot of systems - my own not being immune - may well be in essence bloody annoying all the time, the annoyance being from multiple sources and manifesting in various ways in the overall sonic presentation.
You know, a minor annoyance MIGHT be ignored by some, but perhaps a person with OCD could go completely bonkers. All sorts of examples come to mind.
Audio is so simple, isn't it?
Good thing it can be reduced to equations, measurements and engineering!
_-_-
As we've discussed perception is not fixed, it's a moving target.
Then there's the other side of it, which is that while it is not fixed, when listening to that fabulous system (be it yours or one you've just heard) one gets the "onion peeling" effect over time.
(Which is also another confounding factor in the vaunted DBT/ABX conundrum)
What's the "onion peeling effect"?
Well, you know what it is. It's the way that you can over time (short or long) notice things that were just not evident at the outset. Pretty much the same effect as may happen when observing a painting, you may notice details or brush strokes, colors... similarly when driving a car for the first time, you may notice the fine ride (assuming it has one), but after some time you begin to notice details of the way it handles, as well as sounds and noises - some of which you may not like at all.
One of the big problems is if and when one of those not-so-evident but definitely there aspects once identified becomes bloody annoying. Then what do you do?
Of course, a whole lot of systems - my own not being immune - may well be in essence bloody annoying all the time, the annoyance being from multiple sources and manifesting in various ways in the overall sonic presentation.
You know, a minor annoyance MIGHT be ignored by some, but perhaps a person with OCD could go completely bonkers. All sorts of examples come to mind.
Audio is so simple, isn't it?
Good thing it can be reduced to equations, measurements and engineering!
_-_-
One's reality varies.
It's not fixed.
When I was sitting about 5 feet in front of Tommy Emmanuel, and he was playing, that was pretty VIVID.
I'll ask my wife- she's chained to the cutting board right now.
edit- She says, "That's why I'm crying."
I tend to skim past posts about cooking when I'm on an audio forum. Silly me!
Do I take this to mean that Kevin Gray's mastering room is not flat?
When you say "flat" that would imply 2 -Dimensional... good for very very thin planar waves... but I suspect his room is actually 3-Dimensional.
Have you ever come across the book "Flatland"?
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Willing to bet that he doesn't describe it as vivid. I don't want a kodachrome reproduction. I want neutral. If at any time I do want to over saturate, that's what defeatable tone controls are for.
Edit: as Kevin currently does a lot for Acoustec, here's a quote on their mastering room
Nope, no vivid there.
more checking shows Kevin took over the Acoustec setup, very confusing as both cohearant and Acoustec websites are active but with the same text and different pictures. But still no Vivid
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I've been in his room 3 times. Once listened for 6 hours. Heard master tapes, his own test laquers, analog and digital sources.... Vividness, imaging, soundstage to burn. You are just wrong.
He is not at Acoustec any more.
Go here, https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=vividness meaning
Nothing about any hyper-reality.
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I think you missed my point. The grand complication was first made as a pocket watch in the early 20th century. Some of the complications had real utility when they were first incorporated in the 18th century, like moon phase to know if there was light at night. Many of these are more historical than useful but still interesting. At the end of the day today it's still a toy.
Miniaturizing the mechanical movement really does test the limits of mechanical technology. I don't think they need to EDM for pivots in new watches but the manufacturing/crafting is still quite an art. Small precision parts in quantity are also an engineering marvel.
What is interesting is a new escapement like Omega's (Daniel's) Coaxial.
Decades ago during my racing days, I stacked my road bike and while it was in for frame repairs I put a road saddle and road silk tubulars and a rear brake on my velodrome bike.
Uncomfortable as hell, and the quick steering and higher riding position took a little bit of getting used to, but it sure was fast around corners and roundabouts on 30km trip to work and 30km trip home.
Dan.
Apropos of this, there was an interesting photo that made the rounds on FB maybe earlier this year. It was a shot of a museum (likely either the Louve, the Metropolitan or the British Museum (etc.)) where there were some rather large Rembrandts and other masters hanging. There were some kids there, all were sitting on a bench and all were staring at their cell phones!!
Quite vivid.
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Quite vivid.
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Have you tried modern lightweight really good clinchers with ultra light tubes ?.....ultra light tubes make a nice improvement, and it's not just the weight factor.
Tubulars are great but let's face it, they're a plain PITA come puncture time.
I modified my Shimano type clipless road pedals and fitted toe-clips/straps in addition.
This works really well for riding sneakers down to the shops, and when wearing road shoes I can pull the straps up like the old days and there ain't no way of pulling a shoe.....I like having that security.
Tip: For general riding/commuting, ditch the road bars and fit Criterium bars, much more fun on the twisty bits.
.Dan.
So what we could do is pick out several designs that you all agree have this X-factor, test them thoroughly, find out the common transfer characteristics and be able to reproduce it with definiteness? Or is it a je ne sais quoi?
The former would not be pseudo-intellectual, the latter would.
I.e. what would Bob Carver do?
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