Okay,
For those who want to do an experiment and can measure to a very high level with real critical analysis here would be an experiment for you. Take a simple new solder connection at a joint of two wires or a component on a board and measure across that new solder connection. Now run that connection with an ac signal since that is what music is and determine if there is any change in electrical properties, L, R, or C, and show us that any of these change in any amount, no matter how small after running that ac signal through that connection for whatever time steps you are willing to take, 10 hours, 100 hours, 1000 hours and show any kind of change, n o matter how small they are. If someone can really do that then we can look and see what happened, If you can show no changes no matter how small I would say you could put this myth, supposition, or hypothesis to bed.
And yes I have a predisposition to not think you will find anything but am more than willing to be corrected. I would say, okay they found something and now I have to change my thought pattern and give some of these exotic claims some room for possibility. In the mean time I will remain a skeptic and follow the present physics and electrical theory.
Is that open minded enough for the subjectivist to take up the challenge to prove to any of us objectivist's that any of these phenomena are anything but expectation bias?
For those who want to do an experiment and can measure to a very high level with real critical analysis here would be an experiment for you. Take a simple new solder connection at a joint of two wires or a component on a board and measure across that new solder connection. Now run that connection with an ac signal since that is what music is and determine if there is any change in electrical properties, L, R, or C, and show us that any of these change in any amount, no matter how small after running that ac signal through that connection for whatever time steps you are willing to take, 10 hours, 100 hours, 1000 hours and show any kind of change, n o matter how small they are. If someone can really do that then we can look and see what happened, If you can show no changes no matter how small I would say you could put this myth, supposition, or hypothesis to bed.
And yes I have a predisposition to not think you will find anything but am more than willing to be corrected. I would say, okay they found something and now I have to change my thought pattern and give some of these exotic claims some room for possibility. In the mean time I will remain a skeptic and follow the present physics and electrical theory.
Is that open minded enough for the subjectivist to take up the challenge to prove to any of us objectivist's that any of these phenomena are anything but expectation bias?
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Data sheets give you the information you need to make basic design choices, where there is NO data sheet no one unless a bit daft is going to design them into a circuit.
Its a scam what personnel experience do I need, there has been plenty who have taken the time to dismantle them, measure them etc.
Sorry but if you use these components with no data to back them up you are either a fool, a true believer or just been conned. No other field of electronics uses this component and it can only be bought from the same place the emperor gets his new clothes....
I don't know how some of these purveyors of such components can sleep at night... but then I am basically honest.
Been there, done that as well as adding extreme thermal cycling to the equation, this sort of testing is pretty common where life/mission could fail due to failure.... There is also a wealth of information on failure mechanisms for PCBs assemblies etc. of course this is for normal electronics not audio.....
EMC/RFI read up on Henry Ott, Ralph Morrison both have done books on the subject......
Oh, I DO know this. Not just knowing that nearby AC ( inside walls) affects speaker cable and crossover...
Sometimes you can hear radio (perfectly clear) from an inductor...
Often an amp sounds better than another simply because it has better immunity against RFI.
But the same amplifier can behave differently with different "load" (aka the crossover)... as if certain circuit can tune in radio frequency or RFI...
On an pure scientific point of view, you begin with an example where YOU are wrong. There is a delay. Because of the speed of the light (or speed of electric transmission) and the length of the signal+feedback path.
Let say 30cm, it makes a delay of ~0.1 nanosecond, if I'm not mistaken.
Now, i will agree that the phase turn that is induced at our audio frequencies (< 10 MHz) by this delay will not have a great influence. But, if you want to take a position of "scientist" or work on GPS satellites, better to be rigorous.
The way to discoveries is:
1- Observation.
2- Measurement.
3- Find a Explanation.
Any reference to "Accepted by all" theories can lead-you to pretend the earth is flat and Sun turns around.
There's a large body of study and experimental results out there that put billshurv's remark right on the dot. Ignore at your peril!
But your remark isn't too far behind the truth either.
If you critically reflect on how you write these posts, you will notice that it flows from you and you don't exactly know what it is you are writing until after you wrote it!
So who's writing it, really??
Jan
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Marve,
As I stated I am a complete skeptic when it comes to these outrageous claims and that I do accept current theory and even as you stated real testing being done by real scientists. Yes we would be seeing failures in satellites and space craft and even our cars all the time if these things were true.
I am just leaving room for any of these subjectivist to prove to the rest of us we are wrong, that the earth is actually flat, or that the universe is only a hologram put up by god to fool all of us. Sometimes we are really blind to something because we can't see something or experience it ourselves. Hundreds of years ago how many would have believed that any object no matter the mass would fall at the same speed due to gravity with no con-founders? Probably very few, but they would have been wrong.
As someone who worked in aerospace also I don't believe what I call the BS but someone could show me I am wrong, not that I expect that to happen in audio. I have long ago accepted that this part of the industry that we call audiophile is full of this kind of make believe.
As I stated I am a complete skeptic when it comes to these outrageous claims and that I do accept current theory and even as you stated real testing being done by real scientists. Yes we would be seeing failures in satellites and space craft and even our cars all the time if these things were true.
I am just leaving room for any of these subjectivist to prove to the rest of us we are wrong, that the earth is actually flat, or that the universe is only a hologram put up by god to fool all of us. Sometimes we are really blind to something because we can't see something or experience it ourselves. Hundreds of years ago how many would have believed that any object no matter the mass would fall at the same speed due to gravity with no con-founders? Probably very few, but they would have been wrong.
As someone who worked in aerospace also I don't believe what I call the BS but someone could show me I am wrong, not that I expect that to happen in audio. I have long ago accepted that this part of the industry that we call audiophile is full of this kind of make believe.
If you engineer the design correctly you would make all feedback loops etc. minimum distance, not 30cm.... 300mm is what light would travel in 1ns, on a PCB you are looking at approx. half that distance, 150mm... Again all these factors are taken into account by a competent engineering team. So feedback loops are to be of minimum loop area and as short as possible, not always seen in audio fashion design....
I don't recall how many members from this thread participated in my subjective testing of the Bybee devices but here is a link for those interested.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/184442-cals-bybee-experience.html#post2491862
Now, about cable burn in, my position is:
1- Did i have heard a difference myself (Answer, NO)
2- Did someone measured some differences before after cable burn-in ? (Answer, NO, as far as I know)
3- What are the theories about any phenomena of this kind ? (Nothing convincing)
4- My conclusion: It does not matter for me, do what gives-you pleasure..
1- Did i have heard a difference myself (Answer, NO)
2- Did someone measured some differences before after cable burn-in ? (Answer, NO, as far as I know)
3- What are the theories about any phenomena of this kind ? (Nothing convincing)
4- My conclusion: It does not matter for me, do what gives-you pleasure..
Thank-you Cal. Not surprized by your results, that smell objective. Note about your "so minimal as to be considered miniscule": when we are unsure of a difference, comparing two samples, i believe it can be considered as NULL, because under our psychological blur threshold. And for 100$, some should ask for an obvious and impressive change.
I never lose my time trying to find imperceptible differences ;-)
This said, when something looks like snake oil, smell like snake oil, has the effects of snake oil, is sold with the same methods... what else can this thing be ? Not a definitive conclusion, Mr Bybee is free to send-me some free samples, for i can make my own evaluation ;-)
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Both of you forgot that there I had a question
There is always a pre-requisite for someone to be able to solve advanced problems.
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