Sounds like you are in a very good place, just remember the forest and the trees.
The best we can know is epsilon, which is not zero, but is immeasurably close to it.
I'm not so sure that a bright mind would attack others. Maybe a dim one.
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This is the CTC Blowtorch thread, and I like to answer all questions relative to it to the best of my ability (without losing confidentiality). Silver wire falls in this category, so I mentioned how we did it with the CTC Blowtorch. Never more will I have access to good silver wire like the past, so I tend to use quality copper today with most of the internal connections on the circuit board.
I think some just become complacent when they get to a certain operational level. They can get the job done but stop learning new things or just fall back on what has always worked in the past.
I really appreciate some people here on the forum and they know who they are. I have been helped through questions I have had more than once. Sometimes I will disagree with others, I have been known to get into it with some of my mentors, but not just to argue but to hold my ground when I really believe they have missed something that I happen to see from a different perspective. When I am shown I am wrong I have no problem with saying so and learning a lesson. Sometimes it takes the outsider to see something new, knowledge can often cut off the curiosity or make you blind to a different solution to a problem.
Hindsight sure is great, but it always seems to come to late. I actually loved math when I was very young, it was the teachers who turned me off, made things so boring I lost interest in putting up with that, but that was my mistake, I should have just sucked it up and moved forward. Got as far a Trig and stopped there but I do comprehend what calculus does, I just don't know how to work the equations without someone showing me.
Reminds me of the statistics classes I took where the teacher just gave us a set of equations and didn't tell us which ones went where. Got through two semesters of accelerated statistics and was basically on my own. It really helps to be curious and able to work through problems, otherwise I never could have finished those classes.
I really appreciate some people here on the forum and they know who they are. I have been helped through questions I have had more than once. Sometimes I will disagree with others, I have been known to get into it with some of my mentors, but not just to argue but to hold my ground when I really believe they have missed something that I happen to see from a different perspective. When I am shown I am wrong I have no problem with saying so and learning a lesson. Sometimes it takes the outsider to see something new, knowledge can often cut off the curiosity or make you blind to a different solution to a problem.
Hindsight sure is great, but it always seems to come to late. I actually loved math when I was very young, it was the teachers who turned me off, made things so boring I lost interest in putting up with that, but that was my mistake, I should have just sucked it up and moved forward. Got as far a Trig and stopped there but I do comprehend what calculus does, I just don't know how to work the equations without someone showing me.
Reminds me of the statistics classes I took where the teacher just gave us a set of equations and didn't tell us which ones went where. Got through two semesters of accelerated statistics and was basically on my own. It really helps to be curious and able to work through problems, otherwise I never could have finished those classes.
All depend of the way it is presented and perceived. A very entertaining game for the spirit, or a painful duty.
We can feel a certain beauty in a well constructed logic demonstration and bring some elegance in the style.
I don't know what happens in other countries, but, in mine, there is an opposition between mathematics (and physics) and literature. It is a failure of our system, i believe the two ask very similar qualities. And i loved the two equally.
PS: My worse school subject was English, as everybody can see ;-)
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Hi Steve,
So one of John's heavy silver contact switches would be used, once it has been suitably broken in of course!
Anyway, you get the idea.
-Chris
Yes, but they are used in sequence, or maybe together. I've never owned a setup like that, but my understanding was that different tonearms or cartridges could be assessed in this way. The amount of time required to swap cables would make hearing differences more difficult. So, minimum changeover time was the goal.
Yes. I imagine that it would work like that. Identical RIAA eq amps would be required in order to do the quick changeover thing. I guess one could also be evaluating tonearm cables or even RIAA stages this way.
Huh? Now, why and how would anyone do that? I figured that the signal would be switched at line levels to minimize effects from the test setup. Therefore, each RIAA eq stage would be switched serially, one after the other. This is the key to be able to switch between sources very quickly. The quickest way to switch might be to use 4066 (or 4966 quad gates for 15 V supplies), or the others in the family like 4052 or 4053 CMOS analog switches. However, I imagine the test setup would definitely be interfering with the test.
So one of John's heavy silver contact switches would be used, once it has been suitably broken in of course!Anyway, you get the idea.
-Chris
Hi Steve,
Yes, but they are used in sequence, or maybe together. I've never owned a setup like that, but my understanding was that different tonearms or cartridges could be assessed in this way. The amount of time required to swap cables would make hearing differences more difficult. So, minimum changeover time was the goal.
Yes. I imagine that it would work like that. Identical RIAA eq amps would be required in order to do the quick changeover thing. I guess one could also be evaluating tonearm cables or even RIAA stages this way.
Huh? Now, why and how would anyone do that? I figured that the signal would be switched at line levels to minimize effects from the test setup. Therefore, each RIAA eq stage would be switched serially, one after the other. This is the key to be able to switch between sources very quickly. The quickest way to switch might be to use 4066 (or 4966 quad gates for 15 V supplies), or the others in the family like 4052 or 4053 CMOS analog switches. However, I imagine the test setup would definitely be interfering with the test.
Anyway, you get the idea.
My point was, you could really only use one tonearm and one RIAA network at a time.
See, Scott said something about a 0.02dB deviation in an RIAA network. But Richard didn't read what Scott actually wrote, and started talking about a "system," which prompted me to ask how many RIAA networks are there in a system. The assumption on my part being you could only use one at a time.
See what I'm saying?
se
i agree with that statement. Very much so.
I look beyond and find many details in things some won't be interested in. I left LP long ago due to the high distortion at every turn and the monkey business needed to make it work its best for one 15-20 minute side.
So, I dont use or have any of those circuits any more. And, in ADC/DAC, I use the best possible with the fewest analog parts as possible and the most linear analog topology as possible... including all the small stuff like DA, wiring fields and the like.
Very low distortion of all kinds. Way lower than the audible threshold.
THx-RNMarsh
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once again we see the ignorance of what Bell Telco did - they did string hundreds of line equalizer/filter and amps together in long distance telephone networks - extended bandwidth quite early with frequency domain multiplexing to 100 kHz on open wire, MHz later in coax
the selections on the "capacitor tasting" platter were developed by real engineers real needs - including frequency response compensation to far better than home or studio audio to accommodate the much more complicated and numerous repeater chains needed to bridge the continent
the selections on the "capacitor tasting" platter were developed by real engineers real needs - including frequency response compensation to far better than home or studio audio to accommodate the much more complicated and numerous repeater chains needed to bridge the continent
I worked in the uwave communications field for a few years..... top of my class and studied at Ft Monmoth, NJ...... for data lines, we used specialized equipment to dial in a flat group delay between station links. Much more important than just about any other parameter. I now measure it with my netwrk analyzers to see how digital cable/interfaces do..... now that I have to send ever higher data rates around.
Dont think there is much in it for LP systems, though.
THx-RNMarsh
Dont think there is much in it for LP systems, though.
THx-RNMarsh
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Christophe,
If I could speak or write in French as well as you do conversationally I would be a very happy person. You do just fine here with your English, I stop myself from correcting your English as I think we all can comprehend your meanings.
My daughter loves to take my old algebra books and work the equations and learn the math just for fun, she does it on her own with no help at all. Now she is teaching herself coding and is building a website from scratch using Python, Ruby On Rails, and four other languages and has worked through the financial applications to work with the site. She impresses me all the time.
I got her to build one of the O2 headphone amplifiers and she is almost done on her own. Just showed her some simple soldering and she took it from there. She will do all the trouble-shooting once the boards are completed. She went off on her own and decided to build an inductive charger for her cell phone and ordered all the parts herself and just keeps on going. Wish I could take credit for it but all I did was pass on few genes!
If I could speak or write in French as well as you do conversationally I would be a very happy person. You do just fine here with your English, I stop myself from correcting your English as I think we all can comprehend your meanings.
My daughter loves to take my old algebra books and work the equations and learn the math just for fun, she does it on her own with no help at all. Now she is teaching herself coding and is building a website from scratch using Python, Ruby On Rails, and four other languages and has worked through the financial applications to work with the site. She impresses me all the time.
I got her to build one of the O2 headphone amplifiers and she is almost done on her own. Just showed her some simple soldering and she took it from there. She will do all the trouble-shooting once the boards are completed. She went off on her own and decided to build an inductive charger for her cell phone and ordered all the parts herself and just keeps on going. Wish I could take credit for it but all I did was pass on few genes!
That's very beautiful. Math cannot be an ordeal, it must be a joy.
And it is never too late.
Huh? Now, why and how would anyone do that? I figured that the signal would be switched at line levels to minimize effects from the test setup. Therefore, each RIAA eq stage would be switched serially, one after the other. This is the key to be able to switch between sources very quickly. The quickest way to switch might be to use 4066 (or 4966 quad gates for 15 V supplies), or the others in the family like 4052 or 4053 CMOS analog switches. However, I imagine the test setup would definitely be interfering with the test.
Anyway, you get the idea.
-Chris
Since my interest was in polar caps vs film differences etc...... I didnt think a product which had used many of the polar type in a preamp, and also PA et al would get only one replace to a film. They would replace all of them..... just as a DIY'er might do... replaced all of them with films, if possible.... a DIY'er wouldnt replace only one polar cap and not the others. Thats my assumption.... esp since I am also interested in the total upgrade of the entire system from source to speaker. Thats why IMO I look at all the little things as well.... it all adds up one way or the other.
View attachment all polar caps.pdf
THx-RNMarsh
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Hi Steve,
Yes, I see where you are coming from. I guess I was looking at how many RIAA networks physically existed while you were concerned with how many would be in use processing the same signal at one point in time. We understand each other.
I wonder if any really sick people would run the eq'd signal through another RIAA network, only to send it back into another amplification stage again. Pointless, but you could then use any odd number of RIAA stages to process the same signal. Remember the old Quad ad where they ran a signal through a long line of the 303 amplifiers? I guess I'm <carbon> dating myself again.
-Chris
Yes, I see where you are coming from. I guess I was looking at how many RIAA networks physically existed while you were concerned with how many would be in use processing the same signal at one point in time. We understand each other.
I wonder if any really sick people would run the eq'd signal through another RIAA network, only to send it back into another amplification stage again. Pointless, but you could then use any odd number of RIAA stages to process the same signal. Remember the old Quad ad where they ran a signal through a long line of the 303 amplifiers? I guess I'm <carbon> dating myself again.
-Chris
Hi Richard,
Wholesale replacement of a number of parts isn't something I would ever recommend to anyone. The major issue would be the size of the replacement film types of capacitors. Even the lead size could be a problem!
Modifying equipment with this goal in mind would probably damage the equipment severely. Certainly the larger parts would be picking up all kinds of noise from everywhere inside the chassis. Really, the only way to perform the task you are looking at would be to redesign the equipment to take into account the larger capacitor sizes, and also to design in servo circuitry in order to eliminate the large coupling capacitors.
When I go into equipment, it is those few capacitors in critical places that are of interest. You can really improve the sound quality by a large margin without going after all capacitors. Once that point has been reached, you reach the limits of diminishing returns. If you want more improvements, time to build something from scratch. This is DIYAudio after all!
-Chris
Wholesale replacement of a number of parts isn't something I would ever recommend to anyone. The major issue would be the size of the replacement film types of capacitors. Even the lead size could be a problem!
Modifying equipment with this goal in mind would probably damage the equipment severely. Certainly the larger parts would be picking up all kinds of noise from everywhere inside the chassis. Really, the only way to perform the task you are looking at would be to redesign the equipment to take into account the larger capacitor sizes, and also to design in servo circuitry in order to eliminate the large coupling capacitors.
When I go into equipment, it is those few capacitors in critical places that are of interest. You can really improve the sound quality by a large margin without going after all capacitors. Once that point has been reached, you reach the limits of diminishing returns. If you want more improvements, time to build something from scratch. This is DIYAudio after all!
-Chris
Yeah, I think you're a bit older than me.
Could they have been running them series/parallel to get more power?
se
In case of coupling caps, we have measured distortion only in case of unrealistic testing conditions. That means, 10 times or more higher low frequency -3dB corner than we normally use in our designs. Under normal conditions of LF cut off corner of some 2Hz, there was no distortion.
You can always push it to get what you want. Take yours, Johns, mine power amplifier and load it with 0.4 ohm resistor and measure at 10Vrms output. Wow, it distorts! Or, it breaks the fuse! How bad!
This is the same example, absolutely unrealistic test condition, load 10x different that it should be, same as in the capacitor test.BTW, I use neither electrolytic nor tantalum caps in the signal path, just wanted to debunk the myth and open eyes on testing conditions.
View attachment all polar caps.pdf
These are the ones we had and still have in modest audio equipment that are polar.
It would be best to repalce them or go to servo circuitry if the circuitry allows for that.
But my point was that the DA or the THD of just one of them isnt as high as with all of them.
THx-RNMarsh
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