I know. All I can say is that I never experienced the problem with a single disc of mine.
Yes, I finally had a couple of lasers go rotten at the end of a side (outer extremities).
Thanks for that recollection earlier Demian
LP wearing out is not too much of a problem if you can replace it with a new one, but the problem is most are not available at all.
But it was so even in their heyday. In 1964, my dad bought a second hand LP, still in glorious mono, from around 1960, by RCA if memory serves. It features Harry Belafonte in what I think is probably the best music he's ever done, singing North American negro spiritual music, in a church, accompanied by an "orchestra" of 64 male and female voices. A work of art all around, but even then, I could no longer find it in any catalog, new or used. That one I will transfer to digital format, I must not lose it.
There was a literally priceless set of LPs featuring North American spiritual and folk songs, if memory serves 7 LPs in all, dad borrowed from a Canadian colleague hell bent on good sound, which I still have on magnetic tape - another must keep project for digitalization. I'd pay good money for a re-issue of that pack, that's truly musical treasure.
Like it or not, but the one promise CD made which is more or less true is that the service life of a CD is WAY longer than that of any LP. Mould getting to your CDs is, to me, a rather good example of personal negligence, I assume none of us lives in mouldy old apartments or houses. Ultimately, that same muld would go for the LPs as well.
Sorry Scott, i don't know, but assume this the case.
Precompensation had different brand names, be it it dynagroove or whatever.
But i will ask the men teached me all that analog stuff.
@RN Marsh
There are many wrong info abouth tip wear.
In the end a spheric styli has lesser wear than elliptic ones.
With a cantilever, the tip changes the tracking angle following the modulation. Thus the contact zone of the tip changes following the modulation. Sharp tips are like knife blade and wear pretty fast.
Round tips have the same phase error, but: since they are round, we have +/- the same size , but the zone varies and thus lesser wear.
The error we have can be pre-compensated.
This guy from breier sound is not correct. A Microscope with factor 100x does not real show you the tip contact zones, at least for my eyes.
Yes, we have a very high pressure and thus wear. But vinyl and the tip have this resonance around 20 khz. With round tip the problem is much lower. Aluminium cantilever helps also to reduce the resonance. Lesser resonance, lesser wear.
My experience with my MCwith spheric tip : It played 3'500 hours and the stylus is still ok!
All other (elliptic ones) went down after max 800 hours.
But most vinyl freaks don not listen the real track from the diamond, since the surface of it is covered with lots of dirt which prevent diamond wear.
Often i need half an hour to remove the dirt, it sticks like glue.
Thats why i clean the tip all 5-10 hours at least.
And i use a record cleaning machine.
Thats they key for long life tips.
Many MCs which i replaced (on customers demand!!!!) with new ones showed me a ton of crap in the magnetic gap causing the distorsions, not stylus wear. Air pollution with magnetic dust/dirt ist the real enemy.
Record wear is an issue, but also here the spheric tip is at least factor 10 better since it tracks better.
Test records are another problem.
If they are used only one time with a bad aligned systems, they are *kaputt*.
We had the Ortofon test computer and ortofon test record for tracking and whatever. When used once and killed , 40 $ were lost.
For alignment we had between 1 and 10 times to get it, so the loss was between 40 and 400 $ for one pick up.
Platter Mass
Normal a heavy platter is better, like JC says.
But this causes often bearings problems.
My EMT 930 is 7 kg and solid bearing. I use a saphire ball 12mm and special lubrication. Works very good. My Goldmund Reference has 20 kg platter mass. When new, the bearing was worn out after 300 hours.....
The bearing thereafter custom made did 3'500 hours wothout any sign of wear.
The EMT 950 has reall a light platter with only 200 gramms, BUT a special designed electronic SIMULATING a 8 kg platter. Veeery good performance.
W / F is not only created by bearing, motor, arm resoncance.
The groove modulation comes into the game and thats a big influence for different sound. Also here dependent fromthe signal. Only ghetto
( My Goldmund has a real tachymeter, and lowering the sheric tip with 2, 4 gramm tracking force into the groove showed me a speed drop down from 33,33 to 33,31 for apx 1 second. ooooooouch!
But it can still sound wonderful without DBT .
Frank
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Interesting on the stylus profiles and pre-distortion. We were always sold spherical-elliptical-line contact as an upgrade path for MMs (Arcam x77 series for example). Is there any published information on that? If its true gutted I gave my dad a better cartridge than I had before I went MC!
Most of this stylus stuff was proven by Dr. Shiga from Nippon Columbia ( Denon ) in the 60s', he showed clearly that the spheric is better and the result was Denon DL 103 and pre.distorstion ala dynagroove to reduce the tracing error.
Ortofon did the SPU, which is still very good with the spheric tip.
Nowadays especially in germany are a lot of idiots praising the Shibata Stylus if they cannot afford a van den Huul or so.
(With vdH Tips you hear everything, but after using the first time your record is nor more the same...)
*It sounds so clear*.
They do retipping with shibata and the result ????'
Shibata tips are very small and and when correct made, they track much higher than 30 khz,(with distorsions of course), since Quadro tracking had a kind of pilot tone in the 40 KHz range ( i believe it was 45 Khz, but not sure) to extract the rear channels.
With normal records the tips is to small and thus goes down in the groove and tracks the dirt. But it must be better, the Salesman told me`
25 years ago i mounted countless Kisekis. The blue one with moderate elliptic tracked usually 60 microns. The Ruby and Agaat with hot styli and gemstone cantilevers never did more than 50 microns, usually 40. *More details*. And usually hard to track the last song on a record side without distorsions when heavy modulated.
No Koestu i ever had in my hands tracked more than 50 , but they they had 2 different rubber dampers to reduce the 20 Khz resonance and thats the key for the warm Koetsu sound, next the stiff suspension needing a heavy arm and decoupling headshells ala SME or FR. Problem was rubber detoriation, people thinking was diamond wear and so Sugano San could sell a new one for 5k$. Cool.
Analog creates countless stories.
Ortofon did the SPU, which is still very good with the spheric tip.
Nowadays especially in germany are a lot of idiots praising the Shibata Stylus if they cannot afford a van den Huul or so.
(With vdH Tips you hear everything, but after using the first time your record is nor more the same...)
*It sounds so clear*.
They do retipping with shibata and the result ????'
Shibata tips are very small and and when correct made, they track much higher than 30 khz,(with distorsions of course), since Quadro tracking had a kind of pilot tone in the 40 KHz range ( i believe it was 45 Khz, but not sure) to extract the rear channels.
With normal records the tips is to small and thus goes down in the groove and tracks the dirt. But it must be better, the Salesman told me`
25 years ago i mounted countless Kisekis. The blue one with moderate elliptic tracked usually 60 microns. The Ruby and Agaat with hot styli and gemstone cantilevers never did more than 50 microns, usually 40. *More details*. And usually hard to track the last song on a record side without distorsions when heavy modulated.
No Koestu i ever had in my hands tracked more than 50 , but they they had 2 different rubber dampers to reduce the 20 Khz resonance and thats the key for the warm Koetsu sound, next the stiff suspension needing a heavy arm and decoupling headshells ala SME or FR. Problem was rubber detoriation, people thinking was diamond wear and so Sugano San could sell a new one for 5k$. Cool.
Analog creates countless stories.
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A classic example of a conflict of interest between what's really good and wanted and what the industry would like us to buy wholesale.
VCRs, and especially the pro gear, had transport mechanisms which did not use pinch rollers, it was found very early on that they soon degraded the tape, which was far more sensitive to wear because of the video. Yet, as far as I know, only one open reel tape recorder company ever bothered to use the same or similar tape transport system, Uher with their SG 630 model from the late 70ies they called Omega drive. By then, it was already too late, open reels were soon to become a thing of the past, digital was here.
VCRs, and especially the pro gear, had transport mechanisms which did not use pinch rollers, it was found very early on that they soon degraded the tape, which was far more sensitive to wear because of the video. Yet, as far as I know, only one open reel tape recorder company ever bothered to use the same or similar tape transport system, Uher with their SG 630 model from the late 70ies they called Omega drive. By then, it was already too late, open reels were soon to become a thing of the past, digital was here.
There is tree things to consider, when it is about plates of turntables.
Accuracy of the rotation, vibrations induced by this rotation (ball bearings and motor) and dumping of vibrations induced in the vinyl by the stylus rubbing against the grove.
The weight of the plate is a solution to reduce the first ones, but stupid, as you can reach better results with a direct drive using servo-ed motor. It will be easier for transport, and the central pivot will be less fragile and more silent.
Remain the last point.
What of the advantages of a big mass, to dump a vinyl witch is not flat (they never are) , and is based on the plate by three points of its surface while their veil will induce wow and distortion due to the vertical forces on the head ?
Or a plate cover witch is not flat letting the record floating between its concentric circles ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOidsA9smZE
The only solution is a powerful vacuum system, witch will flatten the disk against the plate, with a heavy, flexible and flat cover to dump the vibrations. And a plate itself in a non resonant material (IE not aluminium ;-).
Okay, done. Now you compare the sound of your monster with a good low priced turntable, and you gone ask yourself the question: Is it worth replacing the gravel of the garden with diamonds ?
Does a psychiatrist would be less expensive to treat metaphysical anxieties of the audiophiles ?
Accuracy of the rotation, vibrations induced by this rotation (ball bearings and motor) and dumping of vibrations induced in the vinyl by the stylus rubbing against the grove.
The weight of the plate is a solution to reduce the first ones, but stupid, as you can reach better results with a direct drive using servo-ed motor. It will be easier for transport, and the central pivot will be less fragile and more silent.
Remain the last point.
What of the advantages of a big mass, to dump a vinyl witch is not flat (they never are) , and is based on the plate by three points of its surface while their veil will induce wow and distortion due to the vertical forces on the head ?
Or a plate cover witch is not flat letting the record floating between its concentric circles ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOidsA9smZE
The only solution is a powerful vacuum system, witch will flatten the disk against the plate, with a heavy, flexible and flat cover to dump the vibrations. And a plate itself in a non resonant material (IE not aluminium ;-).
Okay, done. Now you compare the sound of your monster with a good low priced turntable, and you gone ask yourself the question: Is it worth replacing the gravel of the garden with diamonds ?
Does a psychiatrist would be less expensive to treat metaphysical anxieties of the audiophiles ?
Expectation bias. If I had a goldmund like Groove-T it would be the best sounding ever despite the known issues with them. Only seen one in the flesh once but imposing is a good word.
There was mention of more platter weight being good. I measured my Technics Platter. It is about 1.5 to 2 kg. I presume being quartz direct drive which self regulates exact speed and provided I had means to mod it, I would press fit CNC Penzerholz ring inside the platter. Balance it for equal weight distribution. This would increase platter weight and dampen the platter. Being on periphery, probably would have more inertia too. Adding a center weight would help too I guess.
Regards.
Regards.
It looks really much better than my EMT 930.
Sound is really good, maybe a little bit on the warm side compared to the EMT, which tell me pretty much the truth what is on the record and has a kind of dynamic reproduction which no other beats IMHO.
Thats why i wanted one after hearing this the first time.
Second its complete mechanic and Idler Wheel driven, no electronic, no servo, no fails. Built for 24/7/52 use.
Trade off is a little bit rumble, but the plus in dynamics counts more.
No need for test records, which are not so good as they should be.
There is one thingie, i never had a chance to listen with, and this is the BTC Blowtorch. It can not be bad.
Back in the late 60s I had an ADC 25 (& also a 26). They were great if you had flat records......one (or the other, can't remember which) came with 3 different stylii; one was spherical, one elliptical and one for RCA dynagoove recordings! Tracking at 0.75 grams was asking too much of the records, tone-arm and ones self! One London record shop refused to sell me any further albums due to the inordinate percentage of returns by me and a friend who had a 25.
Royal Sound was also Trade Name for Pre-Distorstion with a Tracing Simulator.
Every record with Pre-Dist must be tracked with a standard spheric tip, since this is the key that the systems works correct.
For Quadro it was even more complicated ( the carrier frequency for the back channels seemed to be 30 Khz) and there were also some precompensations, depending on the Quadrosystem, be it CD 4 or SQ or whatever.
BTW for Scott Wurcer : The Georg Neumann Company declares on their website, that EVERY of their cutting machines from 1968 and later were equipped with a Tracing Simulator to reduce K2 with a spheric tip!
regards
Frank
Every record with Pre-Dist must be tracked with a standard spheric tip, since this is the key that the systems works correct.
For Quadro it was even more complicated ( the carrier frequency for the back channels seemed to be 30 Khz) and there were also some precompensations, depending on the Quadrosystem, be it CD 4 or SQ or whatever.
BTW for Scott Wurcer : The Georg Neumann Company declares on their website, that EVERY of their cutting machines from 1968 and later were equipped with a Tracing Simulator to reduce K2 with a spheric tip!
regards
Frank
www..neumann.com > about us > history part 4
https://www.neumann.com/?lang=de&id=about_us_history_part_4
https://www.neumann.com/?lang=de&id=about_us_history_part_4
I am now not surprised that the vast majority of you switched over to digital. IF you are comfortable with CD performance, then it must be a relief to put aside the phono turntable.
For me, I use vinyl reproduction as a REFERENCE sound quality source when making evaluations. I seldom listen to records anymore, myself.
I find the Linn LP-12 to be the least expensive turntable that I can enjoy, and I find it easy to use. I just don't go crazy over it, I just play the record, after cleaning it and wiping the grit from the stylus. Beats CD every time for me. SACD and 24/96 DVD is pretty good, almost as good as vinyl, to my ears.
Linn has a few hidden features: On of which is grounding the Zinc Alloy turntable platter with an actual ground contact, and then using a FELT mat that lowers the static significantly. I have heard better turntables, but I can't afford them, so I stick with the Linn. I paid $700 in Vendetta upgrades for my Linn. In years past, I had a better tone arm than what I am now using. It was the Breuer. Wonderful arm! Lost in the firestorm, unfortunately. Wish I had another one.
For me, I use vinyl reproduction as a REFERENCE sound quality source when making evaluations. I seldom listen to records anymore, myself.
I find the Linn LP-12 to be the least expensive turntable that I can enjoy, and I find it easy to use. I just don't go crazy over it, I just play the record, after cleaning it and wiping the grit from the stylus. Beats CD every time for me. SACD and 24/96 DVD is pretty good, almost as good as vinyl, to my ears.
Linn has a few hidden features: On of which is grounding the Zinc Alloy turntable platter with an actual ground contact, and then using a FELT mat that lowers the static significantly. I have heard better turntables, but I can't afford them, so I stick with the Linn. I paid $700 in Vendetta upgrades for my Linn. In years past, I had a better tone arm than what I am now using. It was the Breuer. Wonderful arm! Lost in the firestorm, unfortunately. Wish I had another one.
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