Food For Thought....
One thing that is never mentioned is the direct acoustical output caused by the motion of the stylus/cantilever assembly.
This acoustical output is of course not PB equalised, or more correctly is RIAA pre-emphasised.
When playing through loudspeakers at low to medium levels, this direct acoustical output is readily audible, and could be said to add HF 'air' to the in room sound reproduction.
This direct acoustical output is also leading in time wrt the loudspeaker output.
Another problem with LP is acoustic feedback, even if not to the point of 'howling', this feedback causes emphasis, time smearing and alteration of dynamics.
Reverb/delay is added into recordings to add 'warmth' and effect, turntables do the same to some extent.
When the turntable system is properly acoustically isolated from the listening environment, much of the subjective differences of LP vs CD disappear, and in my experience the CD version does sound better due to lack of LP noises and distortions.
Dan.
One thing that is never mentioned is the direct acoustical output caused by the motion of the stylus/cantilever assembly.
This acoustical output is of course not PB equalised, or more correctly is RIAA pre-emphasised.
When playing through loudspeakers at low to medium levels, this direct acoustical output is readily audible, and could be said to add HF 'air' to the in room sound reproduction.
This direct acoustical output is also leading in time wrt the loudspeaker output.
Another problem with LP is acoustic feedback, even if not to the point of 'howling', this feedback causes emphasis, time smearing and alteration of dynamics.
Reverb/delay is added into recordings to add 'warmth' and effect, turntables do the same to some extent.
When the turntable system is properly acoustically isolated from the listening environment, much of the subjective differences of LP vs CD disappear, and in my experience the CD version does sound better due to lack of LP noises and distortions.
Dan.
There are many, many versions of DACs and filter/output stages, so yes expect differences.
Panasonic used to run MASH oversampling (still do ?) and I agree it ain't right.
On initial listening it sounds bright, clear, detailed etc, but on extended listening I have found it to be irritating and profoundly wrong.
As to 'house' sound, I think much of this comes down to the materials and components used.
For example, Yamaha, Panasonic and Sony use different pcb substrates, and I am certain this has an influence.
I believe pre ROHS Panasonic/Technics uses silver loaded lead/tin solder...in my experience silver and lead do not go well together sonically, and adds a wrong HF emphasis/brightness that I too find disturbing.
This may well be what your ears are objecting to.
Of course there's the classic, made famous by "If..." .Missa Luba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Still have my 1958 vinyl.
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Exactly so. That moment occurred for me nearly 30 years ago, and from then all the nonsense in the audio press at the time, and still to some degree, about the inferiority of CD was just a mildly amusing curiosity to me. From then on I pursued learning to understand what the criteria are for achieving satisfying playback from digital source, and that continues to this day.
It is a shame that apparently many have largely given up on this endeavour, and have effectively painted themselves into a corner where they consider a high percentage of their recordings not worth listening to - another path is possible, which extracts the full potential of all recordings; only a very tiny minority pursue this, and that is indeed unfortunate ...
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No I think it's a 12" a hand me down from a hippie friend who bought it in the mid 60's. Kubrick really did insist on Malcolm McDowell for "Clockwork Orange" due to this film. If you stop the CO DVD in the record shop it's Kubrick holding a copy of Missa Luba you see flashing by. It's worth tracking down "Oh Lucky Man" if you can. There was a sort of Mick trilogy though "Britannia Hospital" was a little weak.
In general I'm a huge fan of British surreal cinema descended from the Goon Show, etc.
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I must hunt out Clockwork Orange. Due to the Kubrick ban on it in UK I didn't see it until I was nearly 30. Will look for Oh Lucky Man as well as also into that sort of stuff. Have also made sure the offspring are well versed in Spike Milligan etc.
Also reminds me must check whether my friend still has the michell hydraulic reference I found in chicago and repatriated. Beautiful turntable if odd in concept.
Also reminds me must check whether my friend still has the michell hydraulic reference I found in chicago and repatriated. Beautiful turntable if odd in concept.
@mlloyd1
You're welcome. Off topic even for this thread, but it made the point. A point that was made to me when I bought a copy of the VTL handbook back in about 88. The Manleys were always an interesting bunch, but his premise was that, although CD was not 'perfect' there was music that " I want, no sob NEED that is only on CD". Took another decade to sink in of course. I will admit that I was vehemently antiCD as a teenager. As a student loving vinyl was a much cheaper way to build a collection as there was so much good stuff second hand. Now days second hand CD shops are where the bargains are.
You're welcome. Off topic even for this thread, but it made the point. A point that was made to me when I bought a copy of the VTL handbook back in about 88. The Manleys were always an interesting bunch, but his premise was that, although CD was not 'perfect' there was music that " I want, no sob NEED that is only on CD". Took another decade to sink in of course. I will admit that I was vehemently antiCD as a teenager. As a student loving vinyl was a much cheaper way to build a collection as there was so much good stuff second hand. Now days second hand CD shops are where the bargains are.
Nowadays the bargain is at Spotify. I pay GPB 9.99 a month and have access to 20 million tracks.
I can 'download' a number of collections onto my computer/iPad/iPhone - great for travelling.
The quality is not bad either - you can select 320 KB/s.
I am really getting into the big band/orchestral jazz stuff again
I can 'download' a number of collections onto my computer/iPad/iPhone - great for travelling.
The quality is not bad either - you can select 320 KB/s.
I am really getting into the big band/orchestral jazz stuff again
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That is an important anecdotal observation. Modern recordings are digitally recorded and mastered, yet you find vinyl playback can sound superior to digital playback.I used to notice the very same effect when the first digital recording were released on LP in the very early 80's, prior to the commercial release of CD. I enjoyed those LPs, and couldn't wait to hear the very same recordings when the were finally released on CD. When they were, I hated them. My CD playback sounded so awful that I felt for sure that my new player was malfunctioning. I wish it had been, but no. That's why I say that the problem of unsatisfying CD sound has greatly been due to the implementation details of CD playback gear
I don't share that experience (so to speak), I found the early EMI releases of the Hendrix oeuvre quite satisfying as CD's. I can still listen to
"Band of Gypsies" every day. I even have a copy of the boobs a lot version of "Electric Lady Land".
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I'd have to say it surely isn't the CD format itself that is a problem, it seems obvious that it must be the engineer in the studio that is creating this mess. When you can play an album like Steely Dam or many others that are so well recorded and then play a poorly recorder CD it is just night and day differences in sound quality on the exact same playback system. The problems are happening before the CD manufacturing process between the studio and post processing, at least that is my conclusion.
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