John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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When I am taking about the sound of the mesa being better in class a/b, I am not talking playback fidelity. Even clean a/b projects. I have an old 30's single ended a amp. Magic too, no balls but lots of harmonic when played clean. Better than knoplers tone, but 15 watts or so.
 
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Are you referring to Mooly's off the cuff plug and play swap with TLE2072?

Yes, but another round was done with the LM4562, in different configurations. Theoretically that should have done the job, but in that implementation it did somewhat poorly - in fact, quite obvious distortion was occurring on peak levels ...

And where are details of Mooly's LM4562 implementation and test setup?

Yeah, I second that. What kind of test? A listening test? Or measurement?

I'm using an LME49720 in a crossover (gain of 5), with a JFET buffer at the non inverting input. I only measured a THD of 0.00067% all 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion at 1 volt peak, most like due to the JFET buffer. When you start talking about listening tests you get into fuzzy territory. They don't really prove anything, they just offer one persons opinion versus another. Nothing wrong with offering an opinion though!

The previous tests I ran (there have been a few over the last few weeks) were a lot of fun. If you are all interested I might run another but this time its based on passives. And it would be run much more stringently with a view to getting real statistically valid results as to whether or not you really can detect an audible difference.
 

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I can appreciate that but it is not an insight that can be practically used at all times. Rather, we sit with fix distance and wonder... long line level or long speaker cables.... I know there are a lot of "depends" but in general, on a system architectural level.. what would be the best approach - and why.
 
See Richard Greiner's JAES and Audio articles on this. It's not the shortness per se, it's the reduction in DCR with shorter wire.

Some people put resistor at amplifier output. Even 10 Ohm does not seem to "ruin" the sound so I cannot accept that a few ohm difference in cables is 100% responsible for the difference in sound.

Is there any articles on how the cable will become a receiver for RF or such thing? I think this is more serious than resistance.
 
Is it the common best understanding that on system level, with a fix distance between source and transducer, keeping the speaker connection short is the optimum topology.

If so, what is the basic argument for this?/

If I had to put my driver close to my amplifier, I will experiment with the effect of nearby AC wire to speaker driver (or crossover coils). From several experiences I found the effect were detrimental to sound quality. But it was very close, so I don't know if 1 meter is acceptable or not, but it is a distance I will tolerate without having to conduct experiment.
 
I can appreciate that but it is not an insight that can be practically used at all times. Rather, we sit with fix distance and wonder... long line level or long speaker cables.... I know there are a lot of "depends" but in general, on a system architectural level.. what would be the best approach - and why.

That's easily amenable to a basic analysis. In both cases, you have a voltage source and a voltage divider. The effect on frequency response of the load (the bottom leg of the divider) is trivially calculated. The main complication is the capacitance of the typical coax used between preamp and power amp, but that's just as trivially calculated- see, for example, the analysis in my Heretical article (The Heretical Preamp).

I apologize for the appearance of self-promotion, there's nothing original there, just basic circuit theory; it's just that I happen to know where to find it.
 
I mean the difference in cables of different resistance cannot be fixed by adding small resistor.

"Fixed" isn't really the right word. If you have a cable with a high DCR and your speakers are optimum with a low source impedance, you can't add a negative resistance to "fix" the frequency response and power loss. The advantage, such as it is, to having the DCR high is that it tends to reduce instability in amplifiers (almost always "high end") designed in ignorance or defiance of basic engineering.

Personally, I'd rather use a competent amp, but there's certainly a school of thought that an amp with marginal stability is somehow more "resolving" because it "reveals differences between cables." Likewise, speakers with wild impedance swings.
 
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but there's certainly a school of thought that an amp with marginal stability is somehow more "resolving" because it "reveals differences between cables." Likewise, speakers with wild impedance swings.

Cyril Bateman’s article deserves more attention for the effects he mentions, different from frequency response issues (HF effects on amplifier due to signal reflections at the miss-terminated line).

I have some early indications that what he writes about does happen.

George
 

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A nice read SY - thanks for the link. may one ditch input cap? I can see traces of the answer I was after but not in full. I will have to think about it myself but I don't think I possess the skill set so probably iI will have to see if anyone else will step up.

//
 
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> 5532 trounced the latest and greatest

I think its the current capability ...

In the same way that a 100wpc amp will sound better
than a 10wpc amp (both @ 1 Watt)

The LM's are fast and have a UGF of c. 55MHz and a LF OLG of over 130 dB.

You really have to decouple them well close to the PSU pins, make sure any load you drive is isolated through 50 ohm resistors. If you drive a capacitive load, it's quite easy to get them to oscillate at 20 MHz. Feedback resistor junction has to be right at the -input. Use an RF filter in the input if you are feeding if from an external source.

These are very good opamps- but you have to treat them much more carefully than 5532/4 or some of the other VFA types on the market.

My simple X-Altra Mini uses a LM4562 per channel and has a very clean open sound
 
You really have to decouple them well close to the PSU pins, make sure any load you drive is isolated through 50 ohm resistors. If you drive a capacitive load, it's quite easy to get them to oscillate at 20 MHz. Feedback resistor junction has to be right at the -input. Use an RF filter in the input if you are feeding if from an external source.

I have read the PSU pin decoupling caps recommended in the data sheets is often not sufficient. How do you go about determining optimum values? Also, with regards to ocillations and output resistance or input filtering. How do determine what is needed at the design level?
 
You really have to decouple them well close to the PSU pins
SMT, is the ticket, has been for a while now, same goes for RFI/EMI, ferrite beads, leadless caps (MLC) and solid ground planes, shielding, just like any other RF type of design. AM radio these days is a PITA for removing noise sources.
If you design as if it is RF frequencies, then I think that you can be almost assured that it will work at 20KHz, except for the controlled Z stuff. I am not not going to spec TL test coupons for a audio design, am I :)?
 
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"Fixed" isn't really the right word. If you have a cable with a high DCR and your speakers are optimum with a low source impedance, you can't add a negative resistance to "fix" the frequency response...

Actually that is not what I mean with the word "fix" (I forgot to use quotes there). When there's difference in sound between two cables of differing resistance, the sound will not be similar when resistances are made similar by adding small resistor. It must be LRC affecting phase.
 
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