I have heard differences (or thought I have heard differences) with changes to my system (things have also sounded different though due to my mood and other factors), so I am rather cynical and do not trust my ears as much as others do, and like some empirical back up, and a solid explanation of what is going on.
You are right. Not everyone should trust their own ears. You have proven it with your own self as example. First, believe that however strong you are, there will always be stronger people. Find them and learn from them quietly.
We tried that, no takers. SY might know why. I suspect sufficient care was taken to prevent any peeking. Mitch Cotter and Dick Sequerra are happy with IC pre's and they're on your side (I guess). Mitch 's was straight forward, Dick fiddled a little out of the box but they were IC's. In any case JC has stated several times over the last few years that the differences disappear in blind tests, so this is a no win situation.
Silver sounds bright, thick cables sound fat, I sort of though you were joking. Maybe you didn't break-in the crossovers long enough.
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A very eloquent summation and post..very refreshing to see that others do indeed understand, and understand well. Thank you.
I wish bog standard control theory were required as part of everybody's education, it was an elective for me.
jn
If we listened to monophonic sources and stayed out of the sweet spot, I'd agree.
Given that most speakers do indeed image to some degree, that point while perhaps accurate, is moot.
All these things are irrelevant when confronted against "room effect"...(well ... talking about "system level behaviour")
Just move a chair near the "sweet spot" and you probably will be able to listen a big sound change... at least a bigger one than the pretended "wire effect"
How many glasses of wine one has also has an effect, yet we are not considering that either. (no matter how many times I volunteer to be the test subject).
First arrival/sweetspot/room treatment considerations are certainly valid, just not within the context of the discussion at hand.
Given the program material available, and the technology of drivers, I don't see that happening soon in a way that pleases most audiophiles.
As I recall, 901's were very good at extending the sweet spot position. I also recall that was a bone of contention as the images became too big.
jn
When it comes to IC's vs discrete, in my experience, discrete almost always wins.
EVEN when you use the same 'block diagram' same passive parts, same EQ, and the same care with buffering power supply voltages, etc, discrete comes out better. Not necessarily WAY BETTER, but better.
It was a real struggle for me to make the Parasound JC-3 (IC based) acceptable to both me and the listening public. AND different IC's swapped in the same position, sounded different. I just accept that it is the way it is, and move on.
EVEN when you use the same 'block diagram' same passive parts, same EQ, and the same care with buffering power supply voltages, etc, discrete comes out better. Not necessarily WAY BETTER, but better.
It was a real struggle for me to make the Parasound JC-3 (IC based) acceptable to both me and the listening public. AND different IC's swapped in the same position, sounded different. I just accept that it is the way it is, and move on.
I hope we have known this at least for 10 years
. And it applies for best available IC's as well.
Some can do that. I can't.
Instead, I've attacked the problem, and have identified ground loop issues.
and so it goes..
jn
The most absurd "logic" that people use is when they claim to able to hear an "obvious" difference between cables or components yet discard SBT or DBT as being flawed. It's just a convenient way to not have to backup their claims. Two of the most criminal offenders of doing such is Jason Serinus and John Atkinson. This allows any "reviewer" to make the most silly statements about the "sound" of a component without having to do any measurements to show why.
Here's a clue to all the "golden ear" "I heard a difference" crowd., If you don't trust your ears and have to look to see which is being played then you can't hear squat. SBT and DBT eliminate the sighted bias advantage. Does not being able to see which is playing suddenly make you deaf or something? Yeah I know my little rant won't change any minds of people like that. I suppose they want to be fooled , makes them feel better that maybe "magic" exists and all the money they spent on cables/power cords/tweak of the month wasn't wasted.
build it and show them frank, go ahead ........
I must be tone deaf then
Sorry to hear such ........
Well now is your chance go for it , you have a system , so some motivation , do a full IC pre-amp, I'm sure many here would be interested, I have always heard about the horrors and agree with JC,somewhat, but it's been years since i have used or heard one, a good modern IC pre built by Mr IC, would be interesting ...
Fully broken in , the difference was as stated and agreed upon, 16-22g always sound best on the top , the flat cable has given the best of both worlds, current drive and good extension, i bet it would be different at 8ohm
Yes, but it would be interesting to hear what Scott can come up with ..
I hope we have known this at least for 10 years
Nothing new in 10yrs ...?
Too much Irony,
I'm still waiting for an answer on how you tell when the wire is neutral ...
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Why? We don't really need preamps anymore. Source signal levels are generally in the 2-4V range, enough to clip most power amps.
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