How is some wire that I cannot find to make a significant difference in frequency, become a 'tone control'? What is the mechanism? Prove it. Show measurements of Actual DISTORTION in 1-2 meters of wire. I found something once and was laughed at by the very same people who insist that it must be there, today.
Cable inductance rings with any capacitive load o n the speaker side. I would think this could explain a lot. For example, you can easily generate quite significant ringing with 2uH of cable inductance and say 1uF of speaker side capacitance ( not out of the question in an electrostatic panel). One hypothesis might be That this ringing produces intermod effects with the signal and there are perceptible sound differences.
I doubt that between cables that measure the same ( LC) there are any differences - The physics is extremely well understood.
I doubt that between cables that measure the same ( LC) there are any differences - The physics is extremely well understood.
So i came across an article in regards to Greiner's experiments. Enlightening.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...FrwOGTDusGKc0fSVtj_Xq6g&bvm=bv.59026428,d.b2I
It was interesting to see that the Monster cable had no effect on the high impedance Carver amplifier, yet has obvious effects on other amplifiers. I suppose this is where the mixed experiences comes in, it's very system dependent.
Also interesting to see the notch filter created with the Kimber cable.
Anyhow it's a good read.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...FrwOGTDusGKc0fSVtj_Xq6g&bvm=bv.59026428,d.b2I
It was interesting to see that the Monster cable had no effect on the high impedance Carver amplifier, yet has obvious effects on other amplifiers. I suppose this is where the mixed experiences comes in, it's very system dependent.
Also interesting to see the notch filter created with the Kimber cable.
Anyhow it's a good read.
Why don't more folks obviate this problem and put the amp at the speakers? The pre-amp to amp connection is trivially made a match terminated system.
I am going to stop by Home Depot tomorrow and see if I can get some RG-8 coax to try.
There is lot's of RG-6 lying around the house, but this is ~17awg, not the 13awg or larger that should be available in RG-8.
I see that some of Belden's RG-8 is 16awg, so it does vary.
Anyhow here is the stuff that is supposed to be RG-8 from the Depot, but in the description it mentions something about RG-6, I will have to go in and see.
Maybe "the Source" has something, formerly known as Radio Shack.
RCA | 12 Foot Coaxial Cable Rg8-Black | Home Depot Canada
Something like this appears to be just about the best thing going if you want some fancy-pants wire. Easy on the wallet too.
There is lot's of RG-6 lying around the house, but this is ~17awg, not the 13awg or larger that should be available in RG-8.
I see that some of Belden's RG-8 is 16awg, so it does vary.
Anyhow here is the stuff that is supposed to be RG-8 from the Depot, but in the description it mentions something about RG-6, I will have to go in and see.
Maybe "the Source" has something, formerly known as Radio Shack.
RCA | 12 Foot Coaxial Cable Rg8-Black | Home Depot Canada
Something like this appears to be just about the best thing going if you want some fancy-pants wire. Easy on the wallet too.
Then what about the noise driving the pre-amp signal over such a long run, IMO the RLC effect is worst than going the other way (short interconnect)..
A number of practical reasons:
1) Requires monoblock amps
2) As already noted, requires additional mains cables to the speakers
3) Power switches in three different places could be inconvenient. One could switch the mains feed to the two monoblocks though and leave both of their switches permanently on.
4) Negative WAF from having amps and additional cables at speaker bases?
Trivial if balanced(*) but unbalanced makes for a large loop area for noise pick up. At least long speaker cables don't constitute loops enclosing significant area.
<edit> (*) Trivial only in theory - in practice many balanced implementations still suffer from pin1 problems.
Last edited:
Paralleled two tda7294 amps, in "general" term is an improvement. My preference is for non parallel of anything if no deficiency can be achieved (output transistor, speaker driver, etc). But if matched condition is achieved between paralleled parts, eg output transistors, the result is only positive. It's ear-proven for me.
As for change to sound, no doubt about it. For technical explanation, have you made sure that there's no issue with lower impedance drive? And the buffer? My next preamp project to drive multi amping system will be a downrated power follower 99.
Another common practice where parallel speaker drivers can affect tonality is in a 3-way where the woofer is 2nd order low filtered. This why a woofer should be as good as the midrange in quality, and it means expensive.
Many people have the amp close to the speakers, it's common in JC's world. Personally i try to go for a reasonable balance , not too long on both , my speaker leads are rarely over 1.5M's...
With mono-bloc's it's even shorter .... .5M is not uncommon
Shorter is better, but drivers (or may be the crossover inductor) shouldn't be close to electrical wiring. Active or amplified speaker is thus not a solution sound wise. Half a meter sounds good to me.
Last edited:
I found some NOS vintage Tandy RG-8U.
This has to sound better then the new stuff right?
New Tandy Copper Wire Braided Cable RG 8 U Ham Radio | eBay
This has to sound better then the new stuff right?
New Tandy Copper Wire Braided Cable RG 8 U Ham Radio | eBay
Make sure the RG-8 does not have a steel core. It may add to the confusion when comparing cables.
When your audio system is a shrine between the speakers you are constrained in your setup. Be sure to place your prayer rug in the center.
I would rather not have anything unnecessary near the speakers. The equipment will reflect sound and the reflection is not a good thing. I have the preamp and source 30' away from the amp and speakers. A preamp that is stressed driving a long cable (its really not that much of a load: 30' X 100 pF/ft of cable is 3 nF) should be reworked. Simple tube preamps may have trouble but most premium stuff should have no trouble.
I think there is some naivete about the patent system and how its used (abused) today. Knowing how a device works and being right really has no impact on whether its patentable. Lee deForest did not know how the vacuum tube worked and his explanation was not right but the patent still held. The requirement is novelty, even if its really pretty narrow. The claims in Keith Robberding's patent seem pretty simple, straightforward and narrow. I need to read through them to understand what they really say. Keith is a nice guy who is trying hard to get some value out of his work.
When your audio system is a shrine between the speakers you are constrained in your setup. Be sure to place your prayer rug in the center.
I would rather not have anything unnecessary near the speakers. The equipment will reflect sound and the reflection is not a good thing. I have the preamp and source 30' away from the amp and speakers. A preamp that is stressed driving a long cable (its really not that much of a load: 30' X 100 pF/ft of cable is 3 nF) should be reworked. Simple tube preamps may have trouble but most premium stuff should have no trouble.
I think there is some naivete about the patent system and how its used (abused) today. Knowing how a device works and being right really has no impact on whether its patentable. Lee deForest did not know how the vacuum tube worked and his explanation was not right but the patent still held. The requirement is novelty, even if its really pretty narrow. The claims in Keith Robberding's patent seem pretty simple, straightforward and narrow. I need to read through them to understand what they really say. Keith is a nice guy who is trying hard to get some value out of his work.
Not if they are integral to the speakers.
So what? You no longer have a mains cable to the amplifier, so it's a net +1, and once they are set up you never see them or touch them.
I haven't done it myself, but some use a remote power switch on the preamp to control the power amps/speakers. There are plenty of nice integrated solutions for that, which also get rid of the "last on / first off" problem.
Not an issue in my experience, especially if the amps are built into the speakers.
How does a length of speaker wire make a smaller loop area than the same length of shielded cable? I don't see that at all.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.