Since I have joined this forum i am constantly met with unhelpful, rude remarks to my posts. I get the feeling these are probably men in their middle years with a lot of experience in electronics but may be more limited in their hearing skills. I am generalising. I have had to use the moderator twice already in my favour. What is it with a lot of you guys??? Jealousy that someone with nothing more than a physics exam pass as an adolescent is even able to come up with a plausible idea??? Boredom??Arrogance and being full of oneself.
Let the beginner enjoy and learn - dont beat them down with a stick!
I have contributed quite a few interesting ideas already if you check my threads started. Perhaps i should keep them to myself from now on.
Luke
Let the beginner enjoy and learn - dont beat them down with a stick!
I have contributed quite a few interesting ideas already if you check my threads started. Perhaps i should keep them to myself from now on.
Luke
part of the problem i believe is due to those that believe in measurements and scientific fact and those that believe in the black art.
The latter including myself often have very revealing high end systems which are very sensitive to tiny changes in sound like e.g adding a coin on top of a speaker!! I am assuming part of this is also due to training of the ear to such changes with audio memory, hearing sensitivity etc etc all playing their part. I am fully aware of how subjective this can be but going back and forth should help prove that a change is a change in sound. Unfortunately some find it very hard indeed to believe this. I doubt double blind trials would change their mind either.
The only way we can ever reconcile our differences is to be able to meet up in our homes with our equipment and listen over a nice cup of tea and a bic. Our mind sets and ideas can then be judged properly. But more often than not we are continents apart, so this will never happen.
The latter including myself often have very revealing high end systems which are very sensitive to tiny changes in sound like e.g adding a coin on top of a speaker!! I am assuming part of this is also due to training of the ear to such changes with audio memory, hearing sensitivity etc etc all playing their part. I am fully aware of how subjective this can be but going back and forth should help prove that a change is a change in sound. Unfortunately some find it very hard indeed to believe this. I doubt double blind trials would change their mind either.
The only way we can ever reconcile our differences is to be able to meet up in our homes with our equipment and listen over a nice cup of tea and a bic. Our mind sets and ideas can then be judged properly. But more often than not we are continents apart, so this will never happen.
Well I believe in the Black Arts approach....but not to the extent of believing that they are just that. Measurement can be very useful in finding the source of a fault identified by the ears and obviously is essential for those who rely on decimal points of decibels....also for equipment makers whose advertising is a bragging statement based on measurement....and often means that the equipment sounds awful but that the spec. IS spectacular.
Measurement is also very useful for checking voltages and current just before you connect up a just built power supply to a new SET amp!!!
I am now both old and grumpy...but I don't get involved in these arguments as I know that they are not winnable! Oh yes! I have now lost a lot of higher level hearing as well. Hence the recent decision to go "open baffle Saba."
I am so grumpy that I no longer believe anyone other than a very small band of people whose basis of judgment is trusted. Having been very close to the design process I have seen it from both sides. An acknowledged artist many years ago told me that his rather free expression and impressionistic approach could never have evolved unless he had first learnt to draw properly and how to use colour! My audio designer friend, although he never used a simulator, calculator and seldom pencil and paper was able to apparently design in his head. In fact he was a brilliant mathematician with a very complete knowledge of both the electronic theory involved and the components used.
Since those days if anyone starts on about measurements I go off by myself.... fly fishing!!
Measurement is also very useful for checking voltages and current just before you connect up a just built power supply to a new SET amp!!!
I am now both old and grumpy...but I don't get involved in these arguments as I know that they are not winnable! Oh yes! I have now lost a lot of higher level hearing as well. Hence the recent decision to go "open baffle Saba."
I am so grumpy that I no longer believe anyone other than a very small band of people whose basis of judgment is trusted. Having been very close to the design process I have seen it from both sides. An acknowledged artist many years ago told me that his rather free expression and impressionistic approach could never have evolved unless he had first learnt to draw properly and how to use colour! My audio designer friend, although he never used a simulator, calculator and seldom pencil and paper was able to apparently design in his head. In fact he was a brilliant mathematician with a very complete knowledge of both the electronic theory involved and the components used.
Since those days if anyone starts on about measurements I go off by myself.... fly fishing!!
Absolutely for real!!!
I have two just arrived from a German eBAy seller. They are dusty but almost mint Greencones with tweeters. I am looking for a pair of Altec 416 8 ohm drivers or, better, Tesla similar. Then my Impulse H2 horns can go elsewhere; nice though they may be.
Audiojoy:
Noticing that you are a Medic I have to say that as I come originally from the land of the little folk. Healers of every unqualified hue...including orange...abound there. As a child I was cured of a nasty ringworm caught from the cattle by an old woman who gathered some twigs and said a prayer to some ancient deity, whereas my very Scottish doctor certainly does believe in measurement!!!! He took an arm-full of blood a couple of weeks ago and tells me that I go back on Statins, that I am suffering from sugar intolerence... but don't have diabetes yet. My ESR is normal. I don't have prostate cancer. I may have heliobactor (very common in the irish). My lungs are congested as I smoke too much...........He could not have told me much of this by putting a penny on my body and listening! (Excepting the smoking bit.)
Chokey...glad you are well. I am now 67 (last Sunday) and feeling very proud of the fact! I have some very interesting 2 track Masters (studio insurance copies) and will mail you the info...they are on the sandpaper yellow BSAF tape with a very tilted response!! The artist is still very popular in your part of the world!! Maybe we can do a deal!
I have two just arrived from a German eBAy seller. They are dusty but almost mint Greencones with tweeters. I am looking for a pair of Altec 416 8 ohm drivers or, better, Tesla similar. Then my Impulse H2 horns can go elsewhere; nice though they may be.
Audiojoy:
Noticing that you are a Medic I have to say that as I come originally from the land of the little folk. Healers of every unqualified hue...including orange...abound there. As a child I was cured of a nasty ringworm caught from the cattle by an old woman who gathered some twigs and said a prayer to some ancient deity, whereas my very Scottish doctor certainly does believe in measurement!!!! He took an arm-full of blood a couple of weeks ago and tells me that I go back on Statins, that I am suffering from sugar intolerence... but don't have diabetes yet. My ESR is normal. I don't have prostate cancer. I may have heliobactor (very common in the irish). My lungs are congested as I smoke too much...........He could not have told me much of this by putting a penny on my body and listening! (Excepting the smoking bit.)
Chokey...glad you are well. I am now 67 (last Sunday) and feeling very proud of the fact! I have some very interesting 2 track Masters (studio insurance copies) and will mail you the info...they are on the sandpaper yellow BSAF tape with a very tilted response!! The artist is still very popular in your part of the world!! Maybe we can do a deal!
BRIANCO
Not sure what point you are trying to make regarding your medical diagnosis and diyhifi. No one is disputing that measurements are totally irrelevent.
However subtle changes in sound can be made with many unconventional tweaks. The penny one I have not tried but read of many times. Wrapping 5 cm of copper wire around a two meter speaker cable will alter the sound, if your ears are up to it and the system is very sensitive. Indeed the type of material used in the wire copper, silver etc will again affect the sound, as will the thickness of the wire. Now this I am certain with a little application of basic physics can be explained. But if not readily obvious you can come up with a theory using basic science knowledge then try to prove or disprove it. Unfortunately a lot of these 'grumpy old men' in my opinion cannot think beyond the original proposal of the idea, so get irritated, frustrated at their own lack of an explanation and then try and take it out on the poster.
In medicine there are a large proportion of clinical presentations which are unexplainable and do not fit a simple proven category even after exhaustive tests. Indeed a considerable number of popular medications still have no explanation as to why they work. We do not have all the answers in Medicine in fact i would say we are still a long way off from fully understanding how the human body functions. Over and above this are the even more obscure phenomena of homeopathy, herbal medicine, reflexology acupuncture etc etc for which there is still very limited proven scientific evidence to explain their efficacies. But we are able to see the results and make theories as to why they are effective when no scientific piece of study can fully explain them. With continued research and gaining of evidence these phenomena may be unravelled. But we do not go round taking the Pxxx out of them.
Not sure what point you are trying to make regarding your medical diagnosis and diyhifi. No one is disputing that measurements are totally irrelevent.
However subtle changes in sound can be made with many unconventional tweaks. The penny one I have not tried but read of many times. Wrapping 5 cm of copper wire around a two meter speaker cable will alter the sound, if your ears are up to it and the system is very sensitive. Indeed the type of material used in the wire copper, silver etc will again affect the sound, as will the thickness of the wire. Now this I am certain with a little application of basic physics can be explained. But if not readily obvious you can come up with a theory using basic science knowledge then try to prove or disprove it. Unfortunately a lot of these 'grumpy old men' in my opinion cannot think beyond the original proposal of the idea, so get irritated, frustrated at their own lack of an explanation and then try and take it out on the poster.
In medicine there are a large proportion of clinical presentations which are unexplainable and do not fit a simple proven category even after exhaustive tests. Indeed a considerable number of popular medications still have no explanation as to why they work. We do not have all the answers in Medicine in fact i would say we are still a long way off from fully understanding how the human body functions. Over and above this are the even more obscure phenomena of homeopathy, herbal medicine, reflexology acupuncture etc etc for which there is still very limited proven scientific evidence to explain their efficacies. But we are able to see the results and make theories as to why they are effective when no scientific piece of study can fully explain them. With continued research and gaining of evidence these phenomena may be unravelled. But we do not go round taking the Pxxx out of them.
I think the saying, "You may ask, but may not like the answer", is very valid
I have more than once been "banned" and acused of being a "troll", just from trying to be helpful
In light of the fact that Im always polite and fair, but sets an honor in trying to be be honest, within sensible limits
I find that very strange when I get into such problems, as Im known fore being the most kind person
The problem is usually more that some people take things a bit too serious, and with a bit of uncontrolled temper its bound to go wrong
Also its sometimes exstremely easy to unintentionally place the words so that its completely misunderstood
That I believe seems to be the most common course of problems
I have more than once been "banned" and acused of being a "troll", just from trying to be helpful
In light of the fact that Im always polite and fair, but sets an honor in trying to be be honest, within sensible limits
I find that very strange when I get into such problems, as Im known fore being the most kind person
The problem is usually more that some people take things a bit too serious, and with a bit of uncontrolled temper its bound to go wrong
Also its sometimes exstremely easy to unintentionally place the words so that its completely misunderstood
That I believe seems to be the most common course of problems
hehe, maybe that's why you get such grumpy responses. I am a complete newbie, and I've found people on here pretty helpful, although some posts are ignored, presumably because they're stupid newbie questions.
I like to see measurable facts, myself, but then my ears are made of dense cloth. I'm quite willing to believe that people can hear things that can't be measured.
Apart from voices, and whatnot, that is.
Perhaps our measuring technology isn't sensitive enough, and so on.
However, I'm not willing to abandon the scientific method. If you claim a difference, prove it with double blind tests. Anything less is just poetry, IMHO.
still confused by a lot of the posts here.
Not sure where the impression that i did not believe in measurement came into all this. If it can be measured then great i'm all for that. Most of the time i would not know what parameter to measure especially if it were a rather unusal idea and i would probably not have the equipment either.
Anyway. there is probably only a few out there that spoil the show out of thousands that are helpful. But either my style of writing or my absolute belief in my findings constantly seem to irritate the mninority who are there to be irritated or are there waiting to be irritated or are really 'lovely people' but are having an off week due to lifes stresses and slip up with comments that come across as very condescending.
I now have a short fuse myself as i have been bombarded with irritating comments since day one to this forum. Look at that idiot on my Yamaha Thread who would not let the irritation drop, or my small contribution to the shigaclone where i had several harassment belittling comments aimed directly at me and my ideas- from one person. Now you gonna really laugh at this its got so bad that even the moderator took the **** out of my ideas just have a read of the piezobee.
The bottom line is that if we are all civilised human beings there is never an excuse to being rude, jealous condescending or arrogant. If you are having an off day, tough, you should control your feelings and thoughts.
I am here to stay and contribute so get use to it.
Not sure where the impression that i did not believe in measurement came into all this. If it can be measured then great i'm all for that. Most of the time i would not know what parameter to measure especially if it were a rather unusal idea and i would probably not have the equipment either.
Anyway. there is probably only a few out there that spoil the show out of thousands that are helpful. But either my style of writing or my absolute belief in my findings constantly seem to irritate the mninority who are there to be irritated or are there waiting to be irritated or are really 'lovely people' but are having an off week due to lifes stresses and slip up with comments that come across as very condescending.
I now have a short fuse myself as i have been bombarded with irritating comments since day one to this forum. Look at that idiot on my Yamaha Thread who would not let the irritation drop, or my small contribution to the shigaclone where i had several harassment belittling comments aimed directly at me and my ideas- from one person. Now you gonna really laugh at this its got so bad that even the moderator took the **** out of my ideas just have a read of the piezobee.
The bottom line is that if we are all civilised human beings there is never an excuse to being rude, jealous condescending or arrogant. If you are having an off day, tough, you should control your feelings and thoughts.
I am here to stay and contribute so get use to it.
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