Now we're getting into areas of my professional life. Lead from crystal is normally only a problem when beverages are stored in it for long periods of time. Pouring your single malt into a crystal decanter for passing around to your buddies who are using crystal glasses is perfectly safe. Storage may not be safe, but what self-respecting group of men would leave some single malt unfinished? Wusses can pour it back into the original bottle.
Silver bearing solder (for electronics) was introduced IIRC to stop the leaching away of silver plating on components when they were soldered and consequent embrittlement of the joint. I have lots of military surplus components as well as others, that use silver plated leads or sockets, so I use 2% Ag solder on them. Normally I use Savbit which is nornal eutectic PbSn with a small amount of copper in it.
As for the audibility of joints, providing all were done to Mil-spec, I think it will be a small effect, dependent on the circuit and the acuity of the listener, but a small change in the value of an anode load would <i>likely</i> be much greater.
Lead on landfills: I'm not a manufacturer, so I'm not adding many tons of the stuff to products with a short lifespan that are then thrown away, so I'm going to keep using what I do, as I make the best joints with it. I build gear for a long and reliable service life, so most of the <1kg or so of solder I use annually won't end up in landfills anytime soon.
I s'pose I'd better stop using mercury rectifiers too, eh?
As for the audibility of joints, providing all were done to Mil-spec, I think it will be a small effect, dependent on the circuit and the acuity of the listener, but a small change in the value of an anode load would <i>likely</i> be much greater.
Lead on landfills: I'm not a manufacturer, so I'm not adding many tons of the stuff to products with a short lifespan that are then thrown away, so I'm going to keep using what I do, as I make the best joints with it. I build gear for a long and reliable service life, so most of the <1kg or so of solder I use annually won't end up in landfills anytime soon.
I s'pose I'd better stop using mercury rectifiers too, eh?
Not So New....
I have been told in the past that the Germans employed Lead/Tin/Silver solder during WWII in the wiring looms of their aircraft.
The Britts had problems with wires fatigueing and breaking away from connections until they understood that the Germans were using Lead/Tin/Silver solder to help avoid this sort of unwanted failure mode.
Eric.
I have been told in the past that the Germans employed Lead/Tin/Silver solder during WWII in the wiring looms of their aircraft.
The Britts had problems with wires fatigueing and breaking away from connections until they understood that the Germans were using Lead/Tin/Silver solder to help avoid this sort of unwanted failure mode.
Eric.
Re: Not So New....
Did the germans use soldering at all? I recently read that
soldering in the context of electronics was invented by
the americans during WWII when trying to find a quicker
production method for electronics. If the germans used it,
I would suppose that must have been very late in the war.
BTW there has been talking earlier in this thread that the
industry is switching to silver solder. Maybe that is so, but
when I did some searching for info on solders on the net
in a previous discussion, I found a lot of info on companys
supplying industrial solders that mainly used tin in combination
with Iridium or Bismuth. These were intended as lead-free
alternatives and also offered even lower melting points than
ordinary 60/40 solder, if I remember things correctly.
mrfeedback said:
Did the germans use soldering at all? I recently read that
soldering in the context of electronics was invented by
the americans during WWII when trying to find a quicker
production method for electronics. If the germans used it,
I would suppose that must have been very late in the war.
BTW there has been talking earlier in this thread that the
industry is switching to silver solder. Maybe that is so, but
when I did some searching for info on solders on the net
in a previous discussion, I found a lot of info on companys
supplying industrial solders that mainly used tin in combination
with Iridium or Bismuth. These were intended as lead-free
alternatives and also offered even lower melting points than
ordinary 60/40 solder, if I remember things correctly.
Re: Re: Not So New....
Hi,
According to this document soldering was never really "invented" but rather developed over thousands of years:
Beware it is a huge PDF file.
History of soldering.
Cheers,
Hi,
According to this document soldering was never really "invented" but rather developed over thousands of years:
Beware it is a huge PDF file.
History of soldering.
Cheers,
Frank, note that I said soldering in the context of electronics
since soldering itself is much older.
Joel and Eric, I do think the text I found referred to soldering,
not specifically PCBs, but I may have misunderstood. I was
actually surprised that it wasn't older, since I too have seen
quite old equipment that has been soldered. Obviously the text
was either wrong or referred to the PCB soldering.
since soldering itself is much older.
Joel and Eric, I do think the text I found referred to soldering,
not specifically PCBs, but I may have misunderstood. I was
actually surprised that it wasn't older, since I too have seen
quite old equipment that has been soldered. Obviously the text
was either wrong or referred to the PCB soldering.
The quality of soldering depends on several factors; a common
60/40 solder doesn't seem to 'bind' as well as a 63/37 eutectic
and may be more subject to fatique failure. But this can also
be due to the metals being joined, their prepartion/cleanliness,
the effectiveness of the flux, soldering temperature and length
of time being etc, individual soldering technique, etc.
I prefer to use a eutetic solder because in the too-distant past
when I was employed in electronics, my employers mandated
the use of eutetic solder for all applications. I also use a eutetic
silver-bearing solder for most audio work, though I have never
heard a difference--I just hope it's good practice.
I have a no-lead solder that's tin and something else, but I don't
like it as much; the finished joints don't look as good as eutetic.
Solders being used for mechanical assembly that rely on strength
are necessarily different from electronic solders, some of which
may be mechanically stronger.
The issue is annoyingly complex and made worse by unreliable subjective impressions having little relevance to good electronic practices.
Anyone ever taken apart a compact fluorescent lamp? The electronic ballast is suprisingly complex with salvageable and
useful parts; I had a broken Phillips compact lamp which had two
small PCBs in the base with through-hole and surface mount
components. Lots of solder, too. The actual amount of mercury
in the device is probably very small, and the solder's eventual
toxic hazard may be greater. I plan to save defective lamps and
dispose of them through local recyling/hazardous waste programs.
60/40 solder doesn't seem to 'bind' as well as a 63/37 eutectic
and may be more subject to fatique failure. But this can also
be due to the metals being joined, their prepartion/cleanliness,
the effectiveness of the flux, soldering temperature and length
of time being etc, individual soldering technique, etc.
I prefer to use a eutetic solder because in the too-distant past
when I was employed in electronics, my employers mandated
the use of eutetic solder for all applications. I also use a eutetic
silver-bearing solder for most audio work, though I have never
heard a difference--I just hope it's good practice.
I have a no-lead solder that's tin and something else, but I don't
like it as much; the finished joints don't look as good as eutetic.
Solders being used for mechanical assembly that rely on strength
are necessarily different from electronic solders, some of which
may be mechanically stronger.
The issue is annoyingly complex and made worse by unreliable subjective impressions having little relevance to good electronic practices.
Anyone ever taken apart a compact fluorescent lamp? The electronic ballast is suprisingly complex with salvageable and
useful parts; I had a broken Phillips compact lamp which had two
small PCBs in the base with through-hole and surface mount
components. Lots of solder, too. The actual amount of mercury
in the device is probably very small, and the solder's eventual
toxic hazard may be greater. I plan to save defective lamps and
dispose of them through local recyling/hazardous waste programs.
the sound of solder!
Hi paranders!
I can't also ear the sound of solder!!!
For me the important is the sound of topologies!! that i can hear easely...
But for the sound of solder brigade...life become dificult
Imagine for a project to ear the sound of :
1ooo diferent boxes..
" " fet or cones
" " internal wires
" " types of resistors
" " " " capacitors
" " pots
" " active devices
" " damping counpounds (magic potions)
" " RCA conectors
" " Speaker conectors
" " screws and bolts
after that to decide what is the best!
Life is not easy for some!
Regards
Jorge
Hi paranders!
I can't also ear the sound of solder!!!
For me the important is the sound of topologies!! that i can hear easely...
But for the sound of solder brigade...life become dificult
Imagine for a project to ear the sound of :
1ooo diferent boxes..
" " fet or cones
" " internal wires
" " types of resistors
" " " " capacitors
" " pots
" " active devices
" " damping counpounds (magic potions)
" " RCA conectors
" " Speaker conectors
" " screws and bolts
after that to decide what is the best!
Life is not easy for some!
Regards
Jorge
SOLDERS.
Hi,
Well, you'll need to get used to that...I can understand that when you first switch to leadfree solder you're a bit disappointed because it does not give you that shiny look.
For me leadfree solder sounds better but unfortunately it is harder to get it right, it takes a bit of practice.
While it is still out there get yourselves some reels of Savbit solder if you work with copper traced PCBs and don't use silver wire.It sounds better that way.
If you're working PCB-less like myself and most of the soldering is to silverplated sockets and silver wire, than leadfree silversolder is the way to go.
As an experiment you can try to breadboard your circuit using turret tags and wirewrapping techniques, then you will really hear how dirty lead sounds in comparison.
Cheers,
Hi,
Well, you'll need to get used to that...I can understand that when you first switch to leadfree solder you're a bit disappointed because it does not give you that shiny look.
For me leadfree solder sounds better but unfortunately it is harder to get it right, it takes a bit of practice.
While it is still out there get yourselves some reels of Savbit solder if you work with copper traced PCBs and don't use silver wire.It sounds better that way.
If you're working PCB-less like myself and most of the soldering is to silverplated sockets and silver wire, than leadfree silversolder is the way to go.
As an experiment you can try to breadboard your circuit using turret tags and wirewrapping techniques, then you will really hear how dirty lead sounds in comparison.
Cheers,
peranders said:Can people really hear different solder alloysIsn't this very near sugar pills?
Different solder alloys have different properties (and prices) but isn't it soldering properties which are important?
Solering properties are indeed important, and like Frank says it does take practice to get lead-free soldering right, and like he says the effort is very worthwhile.
Peranders, what gear are you listening on ?.
If your gear is not good enough, the fine sonic changes wrought are likely masked by other system sounds.
Also, listen for changes in patterns in the sound, and not just frequency response.
Eric.
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