In August 2017 I offered a fully assembled, functional SALAS B1 buffer PCB that I did not need anymore:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap...coupled-pass-b1-buffer-hypnotize-version.html
I offered the buffer for 35€ (very fair price) , worldwide shipping inclusive, and asked for a PM before selling it.
A couple of hours after my post has been published, KARTK (nickname of a DIY-member living in INDIA) transferred 35€ to my PAYPAL-account.
KARTK did not contact me via PM before.
I took the parcel with the buffer to my local post-office on the same afternoon and transferred it using standard post-services (no registration, no ensurance),
since KARTK did not ask for additional shipping services, which would have cost an additional fee.
In November I received a PM from KARTK saying: The buffer did not yet arrive - can you give me the tracking ID?
No: I could not give KARTK the tracking ID, because he did not ask me to request tracking service from Deutsche Bundespost.
In December KARTK clicked on the PAYPAL button: "Buyer Protection" - and PAYPAL refunded him the money (see attached image below).
I have complained to PAYPAL about the fact that registration service has not been requested - but: no result.
As result of this transaction I myself will not perform any group-buy anymore nor will I accept PAYPAL to be used as money-transfer.
My recommendation to Swap_Meet / Group_Buy_Sellers is: Always use ensured shipping! _
German Federal Justice has recently decided upon a case, where a PAYPAL-buyer refused to use ensured shipping, but then activated Buyer Protection
pretending not to have received the article.
The German Federal Justice finally "quoted for the seller"!
Best regards - Rudi_Ratlos
P.S.: I have performed a couple a group-buys (SYMASYM, FC-100, My LDR-PRE, ...) and sales.
I did not have any problem so far, and I do not believe, that there is anybody who doubts that I shipped the buffer to KARTK.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap...coupled-pass-b1-buffer-hypnotize-version.html
I offered the buffer for 35€ (very fair price) , worldwide shipping inclusive, and asked for a PM before selling it.
A couple of hours after my post has been published, KARTK (nickname of a DIY-member living in INDIA) transferred 35€ to my PAYPAL-account.
KARTK did not contact me via PM before.
I took the parcel with the buffer to my local post-office on the same afternoon and transferred it using standard post-services (no registration, no ensurance),
since KARTK did not ask for additional shipping services, which would have cost an additional fee.
In November I received a PM from KARTK saying: The buffer did not yet arrive - can you give me the tracking ID?
No: I could not give KARTK the tracking ID, because he did not ask me to request tracking service from Deutsche Bundespost.
In December KARTK clicked on the PAYPAL button: "Buyer Protection" - and PAYPAL refunded him the money (see attached image below).
I have complained to PAYPAL about the fact that registration service has not been requested - but: no result.
As result of this transaction I myself will not perform any group-buy anymore nor will I accept PAYPAL to be used as money-transfer.
My recommendation to Swap_Meet / Group_Buy_Sellers is: Always use ensured shipping! _
German Federal Justice has recently decided upon a case, where a PAYPAL-buyer refused to use ensured shipping, but then activated Buyer Protection
pretending not to have received the article.
The German Federal Justice finally "quoted for the seller"!
Best regards - Rudi_Ratlos
P.S.: I have performed a couple a group-buys (SYMASYM, FC-100, My LDR-PRE, ...) and sales.
I did not have any problem so far, and I do not believe, that there is anybody who doubts that I shipped the buffer to KARTK.
Attachments
Not an uncommon tale. When using paypal you must have a confirmed address, insurance and a tracking number. When the buyer doesn't want to pay for it always cancel the sale. My lesson costs me a pair of 300b tubes.
The up side is that I have now sold almost $100,000.00 dollars worth of stuff that used to go in the trash dumpster. My recycled material sales haven't hit $5,000.00.
When international trade was taking off after the Middle Ages, some members of the clergy preached against selling at a profit, specifically if you lost one cargo you should not raise the price of the others to make up for it. The better idea prevailed that accounting for risk was a legitimate cost.
Meaning you can raise prices as an alternate to using shipping insurance and count the risk as part of your cost.
The up side is that I have now sold almost $100,000.00 dollars worth of stuff that used to go in the trash dumpster. My recycled material sales haven't hit $5,000.00.
When international trade was taking off after the Middle Ages, some members of the clergy preached against selling at a profit, specifically if you lost one cargo you should not raise the price of the others to make up for it. The better idea prevailed that accounting for risk was a legitimate cost.
Meaning you can raise prices as an alternate to using shipping insurance and count the risk as part of your cost.
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We're still having that argument with the clergy.
I had an experience with a DIYAUDIO member chargeback via Paypal -- said that he hadn't received an F5 kit -- he had posted pictures a couple weeks later of his completed amplifier. There are some squirrely folks on DIYAUDIO.
Actually I guess most of guys that use Paypal are exposed to lose the money or the parts. Probably is better for the custom than the seller, in this case, always we need to send the parts by certificate postmail. I lost many things but never from a member from Diyaudio. I lie,actually I never receive a group of resistors from England that they were shipped without certificate but was peanuts and the other problem was with a couple of members that die, In all the cases we arrive to a happy end. Anyway, in the Diyaudio population must be the same distribution of people of this world. I am sorry Rudi, I got something from you but not remember.
i have oposite expierence with paypal (since 2005)- buyer bought sonus faber speakers, received them , dissassemled ,probably droped woofer with wores soldered on and damaged badly woofer. he claimed damaged speaker received . at the end paypal asked my to scan the repair bill (hefty one) and transfered money.
next was speakers when buyer in USA which just changed mind and filled item not received hoping it will pass. shipping was 800USD. neither paypal neither buyer agreed to pay those expenses. at the end(of endless spent time) I just write to paypal that if they want ship me speakers back FOR FREE I'm OK, and that will not return 3+ grands i leave them to ensure my mental health will be back, and the rest is for wasted time. if they dont like, just hire lawyer and suit me.
Paypal didnt asked money back,and Ieven I got speakers back and story ended that way. another 350+ transactions on paypal was smooth as butter.
just dont let them(paypal/buyer) play with you.
as buyer I never fill paypal claims even if i do not get items. because its frustration for seller(being seller i perfectly l know that) I think 95% sellers is good. I just rtrust that problem is somewhere elsewhere.
next was speakers when buyer in USA which just changed mind and filled item not received hoping it will pass. shipping was 800USD. neither paypal neither buyer agreed to pay those expenses. at the end(of endless spent time) I just write to paypal that if they want ship me speakers back FOR FREE I'm OK, and that will not return 3+ grands i leave them to ensure my mental health will be back, and the rest is for wasted time. if they dont like, just hire lawyer and suit me.
Paypal didnt asked money back,and Ieven I got speakers back and story ended that way. another 350+ transactions on paypal was smooth as butter.
just dont let them(paypal/buyer) play with you.
as buyer I never fill paypal claims even if i do not get items. because its frustration for seller(being seller i perfectly l know that) I think 95% sellers is good. I just rtrust that problem is somewhere elsewhere.
I just send people cash and hope I get the item
If I don't get it, I just talk about their mommaz on da forumz
Any one want some money?
You don't even have to send me the item or have a stank *** momma, seriously, free money
I can also pay in woofercoin
A smart contract crypto that securatizez (spelling? iz da a reel word?) audio transactions with tangle tecmology
If the wooferz u get dont take da veils off you get ur moneyz bak
Must be a New England thing, Jimmy.
I send cash for small amounts, or I pay the paypal fee.
Protection? We don't need no stinkin' protection! Seriously, if I want a secure process, I'll buy new. If someone screws with me, sends stuff obviously damaged before packing, I'll remember to not buy from them again. And tell Santa.
My adrenaline is too important in an emergency to waste on someone like that.
hey limono, which commonwealth? Va? Pa? Ma?
I send cash for small amounts, or I pay the paypal fee.
Protection? We don't need no stinkin' protection! Seriously, if I want a secure process, I'll buy new. If someone screws with me, sends stuff obviously damaged before packing, I'll remember to not buy from them again. And tell Santa.
My adrenaline is too important in an emergency to waste on someone like that.
hey limono, which commonwealth? Va? Pa? Ma?
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My best Paypal experience was for a high-end Hewlett Packard VNA which I had purchased from another guy/ham radio op only a few miles away. The item was perfect. I sold it on Ebay, got picked up on a Sunday morning from a guy who had driven down from Boston to NJ to pick it up. I haven't had any problems with ham radio operators in the US and Canada.
When I first started on ebay I trusted people and sent without tracking.
Quite a few went missing.
So I then sent signed for with tracking.
I haven't lost a single item since !
The problem in your circumstances is how do you prove he got the item ?
It could have indeed got lost in the postal system.
Quite a few went missing.
So I then sent signed for with tracking.
I haven't lost a single item since !
The problem in your circumstances is how do you prove he got the item ?
It could have indeed got lost in the postal system.
Ebay is terrified of getting a bad name in regards to buyers so buyers 99% of the time win their case.
I find I get about 1 in a 100 sales with a problem.
I get 1 in a 1000 with a serious problem like some git sending back a piece of wood with nails in it instead of the audio equipment I sold him.
Ebay refunded him, he kept the gear and left me a negative feedback !
I sent the police to see him in regards to the wood with nails in it.
He said his wife had sent it so got off with it. She got a warning.
EBay does seem to have improved a bit.
Years ago I bought a dual disco cd player and a disco rope light.
The rope light had half the bulbs out and the cd player lasted one gig !
Cost £13 to send the rope light back.
Paypal's seller protection policy is pretty clear.
- Must send item to the address on the Paypal transaction page.
- Must use tracked shipping method.
- Items valued above some threshold (550 EUR or 850 CAD, for example) will require signature confirmation as well.
It does not matter which agreement you agree to with the buyer, if you want Paypal's protection, you must follow Paypal's policies.
You can find the complete policy here:
PayPal
That's for the US version of Paypal. Your local policy may be different.
Tom
- Must send item to the address on the Paypal transaction page.
- Must use tracked shipping method.
- Items valued above some threshold (550 EUR or 850 CAD, for example) will require signature confirmation as well.
It does not matter which agreement you agree to with the buyer, if you want Paypal's protection, you must follow Paypal's policies.
You can find the complete policy here:
PayPal
That's for the US version of Paypal. Your local policy may be different.
Tom
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Yes. If someone wants to rip off the seller, Paypal may not offer much protection. For example, if the buyer states that the item does not match the item description, the seller protection does not cover.
Still... I have had the seller protection of eBay/Paypal (when they were the same company) cover. I sold a lens for a camera to someone in the US. Buyer said the item did not arrive. Postal tracking said it did. I got my money back. I forget if I was out the cost of shipping, but that was small potatoes compared to the $800ish for the lens.
Regardless of payment method, you can always get ripped off. Even cash can be faked.
Tom
Still... I have had the seller protection of eBay/Paypal (when they were the same company) cover. I sold a lens for a camera to someone in the US. Buyer said the item did not arrive. Postal tracking said it did. I got my money back. I forget if I was out the cost of shipping, but that was small potatoes compared to the $800ish for the lens.
Regardless of payment method, you can always get ripped off. Even cash can be faked.
Tom
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