Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Swap Meet Sell your stuff here, who knows, some other fanatic might be interested!

Ultra-low jitter generators 22.5792, 24.5760, 33.8688, 36.8640, 45.1584, 49.1520 MHz
Ultra-low jitter generators 22.5792, 24.5760, 33.8688, 36.8640, 45.1584, 49.1520 MHz
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st October 2016, 11:49 AM   #11
doctormord is offline doctormord  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
doctormord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
May i ask what practical relevance the noise performance at <= 1Hz has?
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2016, 12:55 PM   #12
s3tup is offline s3tup
diyAudio Member
 
s3tup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Israel
It's always better to see more information.
The very same way of "what practical relevance have sub-1kHz plots". And.... That's a lot of fun measuring sub-1Hz stuff with decent resolution
__________________
The missing link between lead and gold in alchemist's world was BS and commerce.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2016, 12:58 PM   #13
doctormord is offline doctormord  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
doctormord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
I'm sorry but this doesn't answered my question. What's the practical relevance? Thanks. :-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2016, 04:36 AM   #14
flowerpot is offline flowerpot  Singapore
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Is there 90.3168Mhz and 98.304Mhz version ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2016, 05:35 AM   #15
Ludwig Haus is offline Ludwig Haus  Australia
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: It varies
I can.

Please any info re phase noise at 1Hz ?

Thank you.


LH/S
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2016, 09:15 AM   #16
s3tup is offline s3tup
diyAudio Member
 
s3tup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Israel
Now i am puzzled. Why people still asking for 1Hz figure? Ain't 10Hz enough? You can see the noise characteristic asymptotes on the supplied chart and extrapolate on these...
__________________
The missing link between lead and gold in alchemist's world was BS and commerce.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2017, 07:46 AM   #17
KAISER_nsk is offline KAISER_nsk  Russian Federation
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Novosibirsk, Russia
Send a message via ICQ to KAISER_nsk
UP
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2017, 01:16 PM   #18
Jon Lord is offline Jon Lord  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kaiserslautern
Quote:
Originally Posted by s3tup View Post
Now i am puzzled. Why people still asking for 1Hz figure? Ain't 10Hz enough? You can see the noise characteristic asymptotes on the supplied chart and extrapolate on these...
When using chorus, flanger and phaser effects as an active musician and audio engineer my practical experience always was, that human ear is extremely sensitive to modulation to pitch/phase at a rate of 1..10Hz with a peak at perhaps 4Hz.

This was already a known fact in audio engineering of the 60ies and 70ies, when Wow & Flutter (the jitter of the analog age) measurement standards like IEC 386 were established for record and tape players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow_an...er_measurement

These measurements used weighting filters, which pronounced that very frequency range with a peak around 4..5Hz.

Later work by digital audio/jitter pioneers like Julian Dunn then stressed, that phase noise in digital audio should be kept very low at rather high frequencies (1kHz..20kHz) leading to an ultimately low (audio band RMS) jitter figure. This needs to be taken with a grain of salt, since all good and affordable audio oscillators have their 1/f corner frequency (where the noise floor starts rising) just in the range of 200..2000Hz (surprise). So this could have been a pretty opportunistic claim, because you simply don't get much better below these frequencies, if you don't want to use extremely expensive SC-cut crystals or lens shaped BT cut crystals in the 5MHz range etc..

I think both standpoints are valid. I'm also pretty sure that -90dBc at 4Hz (as a sine modulation) could be clearly audible, since the best record players reach such a level of W&F, so it is at least interesting to know what is going on there in the W&F region.

Please find enclosed phase noise plots of a commercial MTI 260 SC-cut double OCXO (Which is among the perhaps three very best commercially available oscillators regarding close-in phase noise in the world) and a designed by myself oscillator using two series connected (matched) High Q BT-cut lens crystals.

From these two noise plots you can also see, that both oscillators have differently steep curves in the range of 1...10Hz (They have different orders and bent slopes). So it is always quite interesting to see, what is going on there. Both oscillators would be indeed great audio oscillators, if they had the right frequencies or drive a DAC with an ideal ASRC.

Anyhow, if these Russian oscillators are that good as the phase noise plot in the first post suggests, they are really a great alternative, especially since probably no DAC chip in the world would be good enough (lower inherent phase noise) to be a match.

Did any second, independent source confirm the phase noise of these Russian oscillators ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ultra Low Jitter XCOs SC vs. BT cut.jpg (153.7 KB, 217 views)
__________________
My amplifier is very musical:
It accompanies myself on the grand piano, that's not half bad !

Last edited by Jon Lord; 3rd July 2017 at 01:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2017, 03:54 PM   #19
wealas is offline wealas
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
@KAISER_nsk Do you have 3.3V versions of the 49.1520 and 45.1584 generators?
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2017, 08:15 PM   #20
KAISER_nsk is offline KAISER_nsk  Russian Federation
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Novosibirsk, Russia
Send a message via ICQ to KAISER_nsk
Quote:
Originally Posted by wealas View Post
@KAISER_nsk Do you have 3.3V versions of the 49.1520 and 45.1584 generators?
I had, but now all of them are sold, may be i will have again 3.3V versions for sell, but not soon.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Ultra-low jitter generators 22.5792, 24.5760, 33.8688, 36.8640, 45.1584, 49.1520 MHzHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: 45.1584/33.8688/27MHz precision crystals for DIY XOs elektroj Swap Meet 1 5th April 2015 02:56 AM
FS: TDA1541 S2, TDA1541A, TDA1543, CS8412, Tent Low Jitter Clock 16.9344 & 45.1584 Zodiac Swap Meet 3 21st February 2008 08:43 AM
33.8688 MHz XO anbello Digital Source 2 9th February 2007 11:23 AM
22.5792 MHz crystals (also 26.2144) danville Swap Meet 0 15th June 2004 11:46 PM
Wanted VCXO's 45.1584 MHz and 49.1520 MHz Vil Swap Meet 1 6th March 2003 03:16 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:24 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki