To figure out the folding, it may help to look at the schematic diagram in hornresp and compare it to the internal shot in post 1586 for example. there is only one way to fold the thing in the diagram to get to the shape in the picture. You fold it one time in the middle of the horn, using a 180 degree angle, so that s2 and s3, which are the points the driver front and rear is connected to, are physically next to each other.
designs with more than one fold are easy to figure out once you got this.
designs with more than one fold are easy to figure out once you got this.
Re: Laying out the wood cuts
I finally made some sawdust today, and have all the pieces cut (apart from the braces). The top came off my PU glue container when gluing it up tho, so I now have PU covered hands making things all the more difficult.
With any luck, I should have this finished tomorrow.
I used google sketchup, it's free.Killjoy said:What application do you all use for laying out the wood cuts when you have modeled your TH? I'm looking for something inexpensive or even free at this point. Doing by hand is tedious and prone to mistakes.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I finally made some sawdust today, and have all the pieces cut (apart from the braces). The top came off my PU glue container when gluing it up tho, so I now have PU covered hands making things all the more difficult.
With any luck, I should have this finished tomorrow.
OK, so I finally downloaded Hornresp.
Where can I find "Tapped Horns for Dummies using Hornresp"?
I have used WinISD, so I have an understanding of driver specs, but I have never played with horns.
I want to play with some driver specs and I don't think it's fair asking y'all to do my work.
Paul
Where can I find "Tapped Horns for Dummies using Hornresp"?
I have used WinISD, so I have an understanding of driver specs, but I have never played with horns.
I want to play with some driver specs and I don't think it's fair asking y'all to do my work.
Paul
GM:
I went back and looked at your posts 1542 and 1543, where you were playing with the xplod 1036 in Hornresp. I was able to get the same results as you, but I have a few questions;
Why did you increase the Le from 1.2mh to 6.00mh?
Why did you put in Exp at S3?
Please do not take any of this as criticism, I am just trying to understand how to use Hornresp, and hoping that your explanations will help.
Paul
I went back and looked at your posts 1542 and 1543, where you were playing with the xplod 1036 in Hornresp. I was able to get the same results as you, but I have a few questions;
Why did you increase the Le from 1.2mh to 6.00mh?
Why did you put in Exp at S3?
Please do not take any of this as criticism, I am just trying to understand how to use Hornresp, and hoping that your explanations will help.
Paul
I have been playing around with two cheap 5,25 inch drivers.
They are very cheap and have a xmax of about 2 mm, but they fill my 25 m2 livingroom with solid bass down to around 30 Hz. My neighbours complain long before the drivers starts exceeding the lineare travel. Shpongle and Yello is really fun with this speaker. All in all about 35 - 40 dollars.
They are very cheap and have a xmax of about 2 mm, but they fill my 25 m2 livingroom with solid bass down to around 30 Hz. My neighbours complain long before the drivers starts exceeding the lineare travel. Shpongle and Yello is really fun with this speaker. All in all about 35 - 40 dollars.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Circlomanen:
What drivers did you use?
I made a simulation with KEF B110B out of the legendary BBC Studio Monitors Ls3/5a and KEF CS1. They are nice little 13cm long throw woofers 6mm linear peak-peak and 12mm xlim peak-peak.
Any tips on further improvements?
Simulations are based on the published specs by KEF long time ago, found here: http://www.hifiloudspeakers.info/Anatomy/KEFDocuments/KEFGermanGallery/pages/p35.htm
Some new TSP measurements couldnt hurt I guess.
regards, Micha
What drivers did you use?
I made a simulation with KEF B110B out of the legendary BBC Studio Monitors Ls3/5a and KEF CS1. They are nice little 13cm long throw woofers 6mm linear peak-peak and 12mm xlim peak-peak.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Any tips on further improvements?
Simulations are based on the published specs by KEF long time ago, found here: http://www.hifiloudspeakers.info/Anatomy/KEFDocuments/KEFGermanGallery/pages/p35.htm
Some new TSP measurements couldnt hurt I guess.
regards, Micha
New TSP Data, different Graphs:
(45l)
Doesnt look as well as before?
-Micha
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(45l)
Doesnt look as well as before?
-Micha
Re: Re: Re: Laying out the wood cuts
Circlomanen: Looks like awesome bang for buck there, plus I imagine you could even power it from a battery powered amp if you needed to. Good stuff.
Another set back today, I cut the speaker baffle, but then found my bolts weren't long enough to reach the T-nuts. Hopefully tomorrow (or the weekend) should be glue-up and testing day...
Anyway, I was wondering, did anyone get to the bottom of the X-max measured vs X-max real thing? This is how my TH should behave with 100W (28.3v) in according to hornresp:
Now, the xmax is quoted as 4.8mm in the datasheet, so according to hornresp it looks like I shouldn't put more than 100W into my driver, which seems a shame as it's rated for up to 600W.
Now, is there an easy way of measuring x-max as I'd like to try and put 200-300W into this without damaging anything... I know William Cowan mentions that he's got away with putting 1kw into his peerless, but then the peerless has far higher X-max than my Magnum 12HO.
Finally, is it worth varnishing the inside panels of this enclosure if I ever plan it to use it outside or in humid conditions? Once I glue, it's a one way deal as I'm using PU glue which is pretty permanent.
Circlomanen: Looks like awesome bang for buck there, plus I imagine you could even power it from a battery powered amp if you needed to. Good stuff.
It's just an old (heavy) oak coffee table that my dad was going to throw out... I persuaded him to let me have have it and it's turned out to be a great workbench. Even tho it's rather heavy to move around, it's great as it never moves when sawing or routing...boydon_lepasci said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Another set back today, I cut the speaker baffle, but then found my bolts weren't long enough to reach the T-nuts.
Hopefully tomorrow (or the weekend) should be glue-up and testing day...Anyway, I was wondering, did anyone get to the bottom of the X-max measured vs X-max real thing? This is how my TH should behave with 100W (28.3v) in according to hornresp:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now, the xmax is quoted as 4.8mm in the datasheet, so according to hornresp it looks like I shouldn't put more than 100W into my driver, which seems a shame as it's rated for up to 600W.
Now, is there an easy way of measuring x-max as I'd like to try and put 200-300W into this without damaging anything... I know William Cowan mentions that he's got away with putting 1kw into his peerless, but then the peerless has far higher X-max than my Magnum 12HO.
Finally, is it worth varnishing the inside panels of this enclosure if I ever plan it to use it outside or in humid conditions? Once I glue, it's a one way deal as I'm using PU glue which is pretty permanent.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Laying out the wood cuts
PS: exceeding Xmax on occaision won't damage anything as the Xmech should be a bit higher, 22.35mm according to the datasheet. It will likely distort more above Xmax, but at >120dB, so will your ears.
With the data you posted in #1596, that's about 120dB SPL @ 100W. Why put more power into the driver than you need to to get a result. If it's not enough, then perhaps a different driver would be best. Or more TH's.MikeHunt79 said:
PS: exceeding Xmax on occaision won't damage anything as the Xmech should be a bit higher, 22.35mm according to the datasheet. It will likely distort more above Xmax, but at >120dB, so will your ears.
Probably wouldn't make much difference in occaisional use outdoors or places not in a sauna, but if concerned, why not do it anyway? Small amount of work for the peace of mind and less work than building the boxes again should it prove troublesome later.MikeHunt79 said:
I guess I should say this box will be mostly for HT use, and occasional PA use really. Outside would be the only time I would need the extra SPL due to being in halfspace... I do actually have 4 of these drivers, so if I really need ouside SPL, more TH's sounds like the best option... 
TBH, I'm not really sure how loud 120Db actually is, I really need to have a play with my ratshack SPL meter so I know roughly what 120db sounds like for myself... I really want to get this finished now!
I'll varnish the inside panels, as you say, it will be piece of mind (at least)...
TBH, I'm not really sure how loud 120Db actually is, I really need to have a play with my ratshack SPL meter so I know roughly what 120db sounds like for myself... I really want to get this finished now!
I'll varnish the inside panels, as you say, it will be piece of mind (at least)...
I can tell you from other bass horns I have built, 120dB is very loud in the home. Everything rattles and things starts to fall off shelves and walls. Also, the yelling from the wife begins.
You should be able to put the full 600W into that 12HO. They are very well made drivers. Xmax in real life tends to be about 1/3 that Hornresp predicts. It is unreal how little the cone moves and you are making a ton of sound. Gotta love tapped horn subwoofers.
In real life we don't play sine waves.
If you mix two sine waves an octave apart at a 1:1 ratio (more like music) then the 600W total amplifier output gets split so that each tone would only get 35V, or 150W from the 70V, 600W amplifier. The higher tone only makes the cone move a fraction of what the lower tone does, net result is 600W program is not a problem for these kind of designs.
If you mix two sine waves an octave apart at a 1:1 ratio (more like music) then the 600W total amplifier output gets split so that each tone would only get 35V, or 150W from the 70V, 600W amplifier. The higher tone only makes the cone move a fraction of what the lower tone does, net result is 600W program is not a problem for these kind of designs.
I agree. it's VERY loud. I never put more then about 10W (measured on a Fluke RMS DVM @ <60Hz) into my LABhorns when I had them in the big living room.JLH said:I can tell you from other bass horns I have built, 120dB is very loud in the home. Everything rattles and things starts to fall off shelves and walls. Also, the yelling from the wife begins.
No SO to yell at me; usually it's the neighbours or Police.
Cool. So the 6 LAB12 driver versions I'm starting to cut up the wood for should do.JLH said:
JLH, are you the guy that turned up Romy's midbass horns? If so, impressive.
Hello,
I don´t want to disturb,
but I have an idea to improve the tapped horns at the low,
~ 1 oktave, and the size, take two ! one ~1,7 m and one ~2,6 m,
place it so the mouths have a distance, IMO 65 cm, but this can
be different, move them, and connect it parallel, the IMP goes
below ~50 Hz flat 4Ohm, and don´t laugh, the short horn makes
more SPL below 40 Hz!
You can get the effect of bass horn mouth distance and
membran movement cross setting, by partial delete ~ 100 Hz
(mouth distance) may be useful up to ~250 Hz.
give it a try,
more or less the same effect like my double horns.
take soft fibre board the 1 m + press chamber
-----
When i listen 100 dB impuls in my 22 qm room, 3,5 distance,
gets my furniture in the back noisy and want to move,
90 dB in normal roooms are loud enough, 1 W is normally
"10 a clock" at the volume control, "12" ~ 10 W impuls.
I don´t want to disturb,
but I have an idea to improve the tapped horns at the low,
~ 1 oktave, and the size, take two ! one ~1,7 m and one ~2,6 m,
place it so the mouths have a distance, IMO 65 cm, but this can
be different, move them, and connect it parallel, the IMP goes
below ~50 Hz flat 4Ohm, and don´t laugh, the short horn makes
more SPL below 40 Hz!
You can get the effect of bass horn mouth distance and
membran movement cross setting, by partial delete ~ 100 Hz
(mouth distance) may be useful up to ~250 Hz.
give it a try,
more or less the same effect like my double horns.
take soft fibre board the 1 m + press chamber
-----
When i listen 100 dB impuls in my 22 qm room, 3,5 distance,
gets my furniture in the back noisy and want to move,
90 dB in normal roooms are loud enough, 1 W is normally
"10 a clock" at the volume control, "12" ~ 10 W impuls.