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Old 23rd March 2013, 07:18 PM   #3991
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sprang-capelle Holland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi BP1Fanatic,

Maybe he is looking at a path with the mouth directly in front of the driver, and disregards the remaining horn stub.

Regards,
Yes I think you are right, so S4 is only thickness of wood long.

I have dome some tryouts with akabak, looks more complicated then it really is, but here I go.

in picture hornresp give a big very small peak/canceling? this even happens when go from 2.0 to 1.0x Pi akabak don,t show nothing except a tiny tiny thing there.

Also in hornresp I get a bit peak on fall off point like you get when the box gets to small en the qts to high, in hornresp case if T-TQWT S1 S2 get bigger I get bigger peak, buttt in akabak it is not the case or just a little.

I saw that I need to include the resistance and crossover, ande maybe here it is wrong because if I give hornresp a RG of 1.2 ohms for coil resistance as test in akabak it stay 0.10 0hms. Maybe the virtual windows xp I do is the fault of thism what I dont think.

On photo is the same input for akabak and hornresp but a big difference as you see, afcourse I need more learning about akabak but it is promising, a pity that it is not 64 bit, compiling it again for that is not that difficult..

this is example what to ad or crossover including, example.


Resistor 'Req'
Node=1=2
R=5.1ohm

Coil 'Lm'
Node=2=3
L=6.957H
Rs=0.294ohm

Capacitor 'Ce'
Node=2=0
C=61.51uF

Capacitor 'Cm'
Node=3=0
C=2.972mF
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_06 Mar. 23 20.01.jpg (123.2 KB, 250 views)

Last edited by kees52; 23rd March 2013 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 10:18 PM   #3992
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Still Bjorno, can you explane me that if I need bandwith I can best use two woofers in a T-TQWT.

But, easy horn exel sheet do also calculate and I can use a smaller bandwith with one woofer, and it helps with low passing after 80 hz (it has no peak above 100 hz) this peak will afcourse be limit a lot with damping. The infinity is a deep woofer 16.5 cm and so I need a bigger throat or two woofers in yours but then I get not the 3 cm clearance, just speaker is terrible deep,
with one like on photo (example) then I have clearance enough.

I think it is just what someone want, I do like the one woofer version, I see there is so much possiblilitys to make a sub, Nice and interesting that speaker thingies.

This is just a test example, visatons has high vas of 220, so isobaric is the way if used, but I leave them in the dipoles.

have a nice weekend from a very cold holland
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_07 Mar. 23 23.11.jpg (248.7 KB, 239 views)
File Type: jpg akabak-vs-hornresp.jpg (76.6 KB, 229 views)

Last edited by kees52; 23rd March 2013 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 11:05 PM   #3993
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi kees52,

Post #3991: "...so S4 is only thickness of wood long..."

I see L34 (not S4) more like the middle of the duct to S4 (mouth area), or, maybe even from the acoustic center of the cone to S4?

As always, design - build - measure - design again..... :-).

Regards,
Attached Files
File Type: pdf box_example_T-TQWT_L34.pdf (4.6 KB, 39 views)
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Old 24th March 2013, 10:05 AM   #3994
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi kees52,

Post #3991: "...so S4 is only thickness of wood long..."

I see L34 (not S4) more like the middle of the duct to S4 (mouth area), or, maybe even from the acoustic center of the cone to S4?

As always, design - build - measure - design again..... :-).

Regards,
Building yes, but first I need to have enough info, learning, I do amps ehh, and speakers are new for me.

I did mean S4 the opening in the box, L34 is the length of the duct.

I see you have a box like I did simulate last, not the speaker in 1/4 of length pipe like Bjorno does. when one speaker the way you let see in the pdf is the way, but smaller bandwith, this is not a problem because the box helps with low passing. (see simulations in previeus posts).

Thanks for your pdf, It give me again more ideas how to do it. I include two pdf so you can see the difference with Bjorno who has nice T-TQWT with double woofers and extended bandwith.

have a nice sunday and I hope less cold then here. (minus 1)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Maelstrom_T-TQWT.pdf (24.7 KB, 33 views)
File Type: pdf T-TQWT_by bjorno_for_TheBaronGroog_2012_Jan30.pdf (31.6 KB, 36 views)

Last edited by kees52; 24th March 2013 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 24th March 2013, 03:50 PM   #3995
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi kees52,

Yes, these are two more pdfs of drawings of mine. The maelstrom was some blue skying, that happened to match bjorno's suggestion(s) (the driver does not fit if I remember correctly), and the TheBaronGroog drawing was to match a design by bjorno as a fold example.

Three of my favorite threads for T-TQWTs are permo's: Tang Band Tang Band W8Q-1071F 8 X 12 box reccomendation ,

ODougbo's: Isobaric - less then $20 (this one starts with some ponderings on isobaric designs, and goes on to NEO Dan's T-TQWT design, and on....), and this one:

Suggestions Creating Subwoofer Box(s) - 56 cuft available (apparently never finished).

Lots of information in these threads. One of the most important aspects of this style of enclosure is the stuffing that is used to smoothen the frequency response. Again, bjorno has done a lot of work on this subject, and he is the person to ask for information.

As most of this has little to do with this thread, I wish a moderator would set up a unique thread for you, and put all the different questions/answers into one place, but it's probably a little too late for that.

As to the weather: warm and windy (stormy).

Regards,
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Last edited by tb46; 24th March 2013 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 24th March 2013, 05:49 PM   #3996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi kees52,

Post #3991: "...so S4 is only thickness of wood long..."

I see L34 (not S4) more like the middle of the duct to S4 (mouth area), or, maybe even from the acoustic center of the cone to S4?

As always, design - build - measure - design again..... :-).

Regards,
In Bjorno's case, I would think he's using the top L34. If the duct was at bottom of that panel like a typical T-TQWT, then L34 would equal L12.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg L34.jpg (139.1 KB, 198 views)

Last edited by BP1Fanatic; 24th March 2013 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 24th March 2013, 08:05 PM   #3997
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Better wether then here tb46 here now minus 3, mucho to cold for spring, wether in the world get spooky, maybe because of tapping energy from sun and wind..

T_TQWT is in fact a kind of tapped horn, negative flair of straight.

The L34 I think is to middle of speaker and then to S4 as one length, S4 is short like bjorno did and is only thickness of wood and the width and height is S4.

I have now play a day with akabak in a xp virtual environment, and it looks more difficult then it is only documentation is small.

I can do make a low pass with coils and caps, but also a low pass within akabak what I think is better, analog 24 dB octave wil not remove the peak in a tapped horn (I do think a electronic do not also), here maybe a need for damping in the throat.

from now on, only tapped horns here, I want still made one, and the T-TQWT
For the question left, can someone looks to the script, I do miss something like the amplifier impedance, with filter the graph is messing up a lot and I like if akabak kan simulate damping material, the rest I already now now, a learning sunday..

thanks all
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_01 Mar. 24 21.17.jpg (72.8 KB, 182 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip tapped~1.zip (1.5 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by kees52; 24th March 2013 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 24th March 2013, 08:40 PM   #3998
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Default Post #3997

Hi kees52,

"...S4 is short like bjorno did and is only thickness of wood and the width and height is S4...."

In Hornresp all the S values are cross-sectional areas, in a 3-section horn S4 is the mouth area (no thickness).


"...play a day with akabak in a xp virtual environment..."

You can export an AkAbakScript from Hornresp (as a starting point) go: File/Export/AkAbak Script (will not handle Par flare).

Regards,
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Old 24th March 2013, 08:47 PM   #3999
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sprang-capelle Holland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi kees52,

"...S4 is short like bjorno did and is only thickness of wood and the width and height is S4...."

In Hornresp all the S values are cross-sectional areas, in a 3-section horn S4 is the mouth area (no thickness).


"...play a day with akabak in a xp virtual environment..."

You can export an AkAbakScript from Hornresp (as a starting point) go: File/Export/AkAbak Script (will not handle Par flare).

Regards,
Yes I did that with hornresp, and did set coils and caps myself in the script, I have rename the speaker Node 1 to Node 2 for this because it needs serial coils and parallel caps. I have xp installed yesterday in a virtual environment.

akabak is not difficult but i can,t figure out what a notch filter for the 65 hertz tapped horn peak is to implemented in akabak maybe he can not do that.

nice software it is a pity that it is not supported anymore.
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Old 26th March 2013, 09:17 PM   #4000
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
In Bjorno's case, I would think he's using the top L34. If the duct was at bottom of that panel like a typical T-TQWT, then L34 would equal L12.
What kind of drawn program is this sketch made with? I do not am a fan of sketchup to much to work that program want.

2D is enough and maybe even more easy for box drawing in the first place like folding a tapped horn.

thanks
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