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Old 9th May 2009, 03:51 PM   #3371
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Default Post #3369


Hi electroaudio,

Good guess. :-)

You are correct, the FLH in Post #3355 is not quite typical, the limit in box size was just too severe, and the impulse looks a bit like some bandpass models.

On the other hand the excess overshoot, and the ringing, are quite typical for an over-shortened horn with a mouth that is too small. The initial delay and sharp first impulse peak are typical for a FLH though.

Regards,

P.S.: Does anyone have a good Hornresp model suggestion for a MCM 55-2421 in a 1cft bandpass?
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Old 10th May 2009, 03:12 AM   #3372
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Default Re: JLH's B&C 8PE21 TH

Quote:
Originally posted by j.michael droke
Hi there JLH: The simulation for the 30hz TH shows he flattest frequency responce on the thread, which would cover the lowest note played by the piano (27.4hz) and cover the other orchestral bass instruments: string double bass, cello, bass clarinet, tuba, etc, this performance would be great for my listening. Did you post: a diagram, dimensions and does it use one or two B&C 8PE21's? What are your music listening observations of this TH? You have gotten a lots of laughs at our house from your "banned from the house" comments. .....regards, Michael

I don't have that information on this computer. I'll post what I have when I get back over to my other computer.

Rgs, JLH

P.S. I'm glad you enjoy my humor. There is a certain satisfaction in building something so obnoxious it gets banned from the house.
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Old 10th May 2009, 09:20 AM   #3373
Bluerex is offline Bluerex  Australia
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Talking Re: Re: JLH's B&C 8PE21 TH

Quote:
Originally posted by JLH

P.S. I'm glad you enjoy my humor. There is a certain satisfaction in building something so obnoxious it gets banned from the house.
My wife is worried that I seem to have been inspired by your monster, I think that banning must be the ultimate tribute to subwoofer success.
Now if you would just share some plans with the world, we can make antique tea-pots nervous the world over.



Charles
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Old 10th May 2009, 07:49 PM   #3374
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Bluerex,

I don't have any construction details for you to follow, but I attached the Hornresp input parameters. It looks like Volvotreter's double folded W6-1139 tapped horn, but the woofers are arranged like the TH-SPUD. The Hornresp input parameters my not be 100% as to how I built it, but it is close enough.

Rgs, JLH
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File Type: jpg 8pe21 tapped horn.jpg (57.2 KB, 813 views)
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Old 10th May 2009, 11:55 PM   #3375
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this could be the wrong place to ask this...........but......

has anyone compared the "punisher" horn to a tapped horn ??

or at least put them into horn resp ?

would be interesting to see how the tapped horn stacks up

walt de jong designed the punisher and also a tapped horn variant any hornresgurus up for the sim - ing ?

punisher:

http://www.speakerstore.nl/constructions/21

Tapped (or "stepped" horn) horn

http://www.speakerstore.nl/constructions/61


ps i built two punshers albeit with lower quality drivers and they are a interesting beasty.. wondering how a tapped horn tuned in a similar way would stack up.

ie is a tapped horn better in terms of output than a more traditional folded horn ??


-Dan
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Old 11th May 2009, 08:56 AM   #3376
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally posted by danieljw
is a tapped horn better in terms of output than a more traditional folded horn ?
no, but it saves a lot of volume (size) for pretty good efficiency over a restricted bandwidth.
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Old 11th May 2009, 10:32 AM   #3377
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thanks andrew
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Old 14th May 2009, 05:35 PM   #3378
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
no, but it saves a lot of volume (size) for pretty good efficiency over a restricted bandwidth.
Based on my experience building and modeling conventional and tapped horns, a tapped horn *is* more efficient at low frequencies.

In other words, if you want maximum spl at 100hz, either design will work well, and a conventional horn will likely be flatter. But if you want maximum sub-bass output, a tapped horn is tough to beat.

This topic was explored in my thread named "tapped horn for dummies." The inventor of the tapped horn (Tom Danley) chimed in too.
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Old 14th May 2009, 05:42 PM   #3379
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Did anyone see this comparison of a tapped horn and a conventional horn?

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/inde...g/41911/0/0/0/

A couple of observations:

- I've been complaining for months that everyone is posting simulations in horn response that are wildly optimistic, because they're modeled using an unrealistic "radiation angle" in Hornresp. The measurements from the thread above back up my claim; they show that a conventional horn and a tapped horn have similar efficiency above 60hz.

- The tapped horn is surprisingly smooth above 60hz. This confirms what Danley has noted, that the simulations exaggerate the peaks and the dips in a tapped horn.

- The tapped horn is displaying a full 6db of extra output at 40hz! Nice

- It's interesting to see that grouping two together doesn't lower the F3. I'd love to hear someone do a concert where the subs were distributed around the venue, to flatten the response, instead of grouped together. Last week I went to an Imax theater where the subs were all grouped together, and you could hear some definite room effects from the stack. (I use eight subs at home, distributed to flatten the response. My home subs definitely sounded more natural than the Imax subs.)

Just some observations...
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Old 14th May 2009, 11:07 PM   #3380
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Default Eight subwoofers

Hi there Patrick: Your system must sound great with distributed bass. I'm contmplating a multiple sub system and have a few questions: What connection scheme di you use? Wire (lots of wire)? Wireless? How many bass amps? Is there phase control in use? I recently read the Harman Int. study by Todd Welti, which studied the placement of multiple subs: what placement did you use? Baybe this subject should be in a diferent thread? ....... regards, Michael
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