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Old 10th January 2008, 11:14 PM   #991
GM is offline GM  United States
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If you optimize Fs, Qes for the 80-320 Hz BW, which yields even better performance due to a smaller gain BW, it jumps up to a whopping 528.141 L, but its electro-mechanical damping is equally impressive compared to the others, though don't have a clue how audible the differences are other than its increased peak power handling:
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File Type: gif z 80-320 hz expo tapped horn.gif (19.0 KB, 788 views)
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Old 10th January 2008, 11:35 PM   #992
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Now, using the 'ideal' Fs, Qes driver that requires 365.625 L net in a TH and letting Hornresp auto calc an 80 - 320 Hz FLH, it's 275.111 L net, 129.49 cm long terminating into a 7,356.94 cm^2 mouth. Not exactly small, but on paper it outperforms the 578+L TH in every simmed way enough to make it the 'no-brainer' choice of the bunch IMO:
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Old 11th January 2008, 01:24 AM   #993
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Brett,
> How is a conical flare any more difficult to make than a TH?

Curves are harder to make Ė but youíre referring to straight conicals?
In straight conicals, thereís mitre joins - I havenít done them.

> the TH sims have a ton of artifacts up high

Youíve led me to think more about the FR above BW. I donít want artefacts, but hadnít previously considered . .


GM,

Thank you very much for your sims and graphs!!

As youíve also made clear, I was looking to save size, but the compomnises are much greater than I thought. As you say - you get what you 'pay' for

How did you determine the 'ideal' Fs & Qes, and what were they?

Thank you
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Old 11th January 2008, 01:28 AM   #994
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Quote:
Originally posted by otto88
Brett,
> How is a conical flare any more difficult to make than a TH?

Curves are harder to make Ė but youíre referring to straight conicals?
In straight conicals, thereís mitre joins - I havenít done them.
If it has curves, it's not conical. You're still going to need to do a mitre in a TH.

My woodworking skills are pretty meagre, but even I can manage a conical flare. Next weekend I'll be making a new mid for my KHorns with nothing but wood, glue etc, circ saw, large square and two clamps.
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Old 11th January 2008, 02:46 AM   #995
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Quote:
Originally posted by Killjoy

I am still trying to get my head around the s1 - s4 thing.
Greets!

You're welcome!

Hmm, Buzzy's drawing doesn't look right to me. This is the Hornresp layout as I understand it: http://img155.imagevenue.com/img.php...122_1037lo.JPG

S1 = throat area (St)
S2 = horn area at the centerline of the driver nearest the throat
S3 = horn area at the centerline of the driver nearest the mouth
S4 = mouth area (Sm)

Note that if you make the box width/depth ratio 1:1.4142, then the distance from the divider baffle to the three sides is equal at (depth - baffle thickness)/2. Note too that the angled corner baffles have no measurable effect in the LF, though some damping there to reduce the amplitude of standing waves may be beneficial.

GM
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Old 11th January 2008, 03:34 AM   #996
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Quote:
Originally posted by otto88

Thank you very much for your sims and graphs!!

How did you determine the 'ideal' Fs & Qes, and what were they?
Greets!

You're welcome!

I learned enough T/S theory to apply it to horn design theory. There's folks who lurk for such hard won knowledge so they can use it for personal gain, so pardon me if I let you learn it on your own. As it is, me and others have posted so much BP, TL, horn, etc., design theory and examples in recent years on various forums that it's already been published, just not listed as such.

As the old saying goes, the few spoil it for the many.

GM
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Old 11th January 2008, 07:49 AM   #997
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brett
If it has curves, it's not conical.
Hi Brett,

It is probably worth clarifying that it is possible for a rectangular "conical horn" to have curved sides - it all depends on the aspect ratios of the throat and mouth. This can be readily demonstrated in Hornresp by exporting conical horn schematic diagram data, and charting the height and width results in Excel. Remember, it is only the cross-sectional area that is required to obey the conical expansion law.

It is interesting to note that the great Paul Klipsch himself originally thought that the initial "rubber throat" in his famous Klipschorn had a conical flare rate, when in fact it was parabolic - even though all the panels were flat (two parallel and two tapered).

Kind regards,

David
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Old 11th January 2008, 08:05 AM   #998
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Quote:
Originally posted by David McBean


Hi Brett,

It is probably worth clarifying that it is possible for a rectangular "conical horn" to have curved sides - it all depends on the aspect ratios of the throat and mouth. This can be readily demonstrated in Hornresp by exporting conical horn schematic diagram data, and charting the height and width results in Excel. Remember, it is only the cross-sectional area that is required to obey the conical expansion law.

It is interesting to note that the great Paul Klipsch himself originally thought that the initial "rubber throat" in his famous Klipschorn had a conical flare rate, when in fact it was parabolic - even though all the panels were flat (two parallel and two tapered).

Kind regards,

David
Hi David. Of course you are correct; I was thinking too simplistically. Cheers.

When I get home in a couple of weeks, I'm going to try a new conical, cone driven midhorn for my1974 KHorns. Providing we can actually get the bass section upstairs.
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Old 14th January 2008, 07:09 PM   #999
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Default Sims

Hello GM:

Over the weekend I ran a Dayton Quatro 15" from parts express through Hornresp. Can you tell me if these look good. I'm not sure that I am under standing the x-max in the displacement diagram correctly. I remember someone mentioning that you are supposed to be able to determine what the max excursion will be at what power. Volvoteer mentioned this in one of his posts, but I didn't see how he determined this. Thanks.

BTW, I also ran the Dayton Quatro 10" and it also looks good. I ran the LAB12 too, and got similar results as posted below.
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Old 14th January 2008, 07:13 PM   #1000
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Default Sims Part II

GM,

Here is the rest of the sim for the 15" Quatro.
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