Hi,
I'm looking to build a sub, i have sources/ideas for most of the stuff i need, however i will need a good quality and reasonably priced 12" driver.
Having read a lot of stuff, the Shiva III looks a good choice, but I cannot find it retail in the UK, and i don't really want to import one.
So, does anyone have a source for this in the UK, or can someone recommend a similar product available on these shores.
Cheers
I'm looking to build a sub, i have sources/ideas for most of the stuff i need, however i will need a good quality and reasonably priced 12" driver.
Having read a lot of stuff, the Shiva III looks a good choice, but I cannot find it retail in the UK, and i don't really want to import one.
So, does anyone have a source for this in the UK, or can someone recommend a similar product available on these shores.
Cheers
BK Electronics sell a couple of drivers that may meet your needs:
http://www.bkelec.com/HI-FI.htm
The AC12SW (£84 + £7 delivery) and BX10 (£50 + £7) both look like good candidates for a subwoofer but Xmax isn't quoted for either driver. I did try emailing BK and RCM Akoustic (the driver manufacturer) but neither have ever repiled.
Nice one,
David.
http://www.bkelec.com/HI-FI.htm
The AC12SW (£84 + £7 delivery) and BX10 (£50 + £7) both look like good candidates for a subwoofer but Xmax isn't quoted for either driver. I did try emailing BK and RCM Akoustic (the driver manufacturer) but neither have ever repiled.
Nice one,
David.
daatkins said:
Cyber friends of mine over there have nothing but the highest praise for BK Electronics.
The Xmax of the two models was not quoted, but the voice coil length was. The BX-10 has a voice coil length of 23 mm. That should be good for a linear Xmax of 8 or 9 mm. The AC12SW has a voice coil length of 19 mm. Figure it's Xmax as being around 6 mm, or quarter inch. They mention a double magnet, but nobody mentions a symmetrical magnetic system, which is almost a must if you are going to build a ported or Drone Cone, (Passive Rasdator), system.
Plus or minus quarter inch is generally regarded as some sort of dividing line for long excursion. The real heavyweights go plus or minus 12 mm or more. 8 mm or 9 mm is pretty good-it used to be the best there was. And 6 mm is just average.
An inexpensive woofer that should be available over there is the Peerless CSX 10" or the CC 257-both are very similar. The CSX goes up higher, but both have a symmetrical magnetic system and an Xmax of 9 mm.
The Peerless XLS line is one fine lineup, but with extremely low Qts's seems to be made for great performance out of boxes that are one half cubic foot to one cubic foot. They'll go awfully low for that size, but that size is relatively small.
Pinkmouse:
I will admit that is a puzzlement. As regards loudspeakers, I am amazed that European made woofers are frequently much cheaper over here than over there. You have 60 million people. How big does the population have to be to qualify for volume discounts?
Well, here's something that is a little more helpful.
Eminence has released a 12" subwoofer that is clearly meant to compete in the Shiva, NHT, Titanic type marketplace. It is called the Lab 12. It has been mentioned in this forum, though not that often. Parts Express of America says it's list price, (not the unlisted Parts Express price), is $209.
BK Electronics has it for 127 pounds, including VAT. That is under the listed price for America. Actually, if you peruse the Eminence price list at BK Electronics, you see that they charge under the listed American Eminence price for pretty much the whole line.
Some years ago I saw that Eminence had a European section, susidiary or whatever. That might account for the relative equality of prices on both sides of the Atlantic for Eminence products.
You might try a Search for the Lab 12 sub, because it has been mentioned here. Eminence has a good rep, though, and in fact I believe it makes the Dayton Titanic-not sure of that. They do make some of Parts Express' line though.
www.bkelec.com Then click:
Professional Audio-Loudspeaker Drive Units-Eminence Icon.
Click Lab 12 near the top of the screen. I notice that BK Electronics puts the Lab 12 separately, above the rest of the price list. I would guess that is because they expect to sell a lot of them.
I will admit that is a puzzlement. As regards loudspeakers, I am amazed that European made woofers are frequently much cheaper over here than over there. You have 60 million people. How big does the population have to be to qualify for volume discounts?
Well, here's something that is a little more helpful.
Eminence has released a 12" subwoofer that is clearly meant to compete in the Shiva, NHT, Titanic type marketplace. It is called the Lab 12. It has been mentioned in this forum, though not that often. Parts Express of America says it's list price, (not the unlisted Parts Express price), is $209.
BK Electronics has it for 127 pounds, including VAT. That is under the listed price for America. Actually, if you peruse the Eminence price list at BK Electronics, you see that they charge under the listed American Eminence price for pretty much the whole line.
Some years ago I saw that Eminence had a European section, susidiary or whatever. That might account for the relative equality of prices on both sides of the Atlantic for Eminence products.
You might try a Search for the Lab 12 sub, because it has been mentioned here. Eminence has a good rep, though, and in fact I believe it makes the Dayton Titanic-not sure of that. They do make some of Parts Express' line though.
www.bkelec.com Then click:
Professional Audio-Loudspeaker Drive Units-Eminence Icon.
Click Lab 12 near the top of the screen. I notice that BK Electronics puts the Lab 12 separately, above the rest of the price list. I would guess that is because they expect to sell a lot of them.
DNRC:
By the way, here is the link to the Eminence website on the Lab 12 subwoofer:
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/lab12/lab12.htm
Here is a list of UK dealers that sell Eminence products:
http://www.eminence.com/eminence/pages/support/inquiry/ukmap.htm
That dealer list might be useful in another way. Since a place that sells a decent brand like Eminence possibly also sells other good brands, you might try calling up some of those places and asking for a good 12" subwoofer of any brand. Find out what they have, and at what price.
At any rate, good luck with your sub search. Let us know how you come out.
By the way, here is the link to the Eminence website on the Lab 12 subwoofer:
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/lab12/lab12.htm
Here is a list of UK dealers that sell Eminence products:
http://www.eminence.com/eminence/pages/support/inquiry/ukmap.htm
That dealer list might be useful in another way. Since a place that sells a decent brand like Eminence possibly also sells other good brands, you might try calling up some of those places and asking for a good 12" subwoofer of any brand. Find out what they have, and at what price.
At any rate, good luck with your sub search. Let us know how you come out.
Thanks for that, Wiz, I spoke to BK about the Lab 12 driver about 4 months ago when I first found the Lab Horn project, and they said they didn't think there would be the demand for it. I'm glad they changed their minds!
Although in my current flat I have no room for the Lab Horns, I might have to get a couple of these to have a play with in a smaller enclosure next time I get paid for a big contract!
Although in my current flat I have no room for the Lab Horns, I might have to get a couple of these to have a play with in a smaller enclosure next time I get paid for a big contract!
pinkmouse said:Just had a quick play with the Lab 12 in WinIsd.
With a 60litre box tuned to 24Hz, the -3dB point is at 20Hz, definately do-able
Since Eminence, for some reason, emphasizes that these were originally designed for horns, perhaps BK Electronics figured that there would be little call for them. However, they fit in with the Shiva, etc., for ported boxes.
Offhand, I would say that they would work well in ported boxes above 2 cubic feet, and sealed boxes below that. That is a quick impression.
Are you certain that your F3 is below your tuning frequency there?
Well done Peter, you caught my deliberate mistake I'll have to stop drinking beer on a Friday night!
What I actually meant, was a 100litre box tuned to 24Hz, And the F3 is just about below!
When I use Win Isd online for quick calcs like that, I ignore their optimum box settings, and just start with what seems like a good tuning frequency, in this case 24 Hz, and a good box volume, 60L. I then just keep adding 10L until the curve looks OK. And I just forgot to mention that bit
Obviously you need to do it properly if you actually build the box, but it gives a good idea of how a driver will will perform.
I'll have to stop drinking beer on a Friday night!What I actually meant, was a 100litre box tuned to 24Hz, And the F3 is just about below!
When I use Win Isd online for quick calcs like that, I ignore their optimum box settings, and just start with what seems like a good tuning frequency, in this case 24 Hz, and a good box volume, 60L. I then just keep adding 10L until the curve looks OK. And I just forgot to mention that bit
Obviously you need to do it properly if you actually build the box, but it gives a good idea of how a driver will will perform.
Hey, let's not get drastic!!.pinkmouse said:
Win ISD is a great program, but does anyone really use their Optimum Box Values? Best to do it your way.
Since DNRC mentioned the Shiva Mark III, I just figured I would run the Eminence Lab 12, the Shiva Mark III, and the Peerless XLS 12" on Win ISD. All three are in an identical box-60 Liters tuned to 25 Hz.
The Eminence Lab 12 is in red.
The Shiva Mark III is in green
The Peerless XLS, (830500), is in blue.
Attachments
Hi
Just I thought I would let you know, that BK will be introducing a Shiva 3 clone for £65 in March. This represents extremely good value as 2 could be purchased, and a THX Ultra type spec sub woofer built. I make this about 104dB at 20Hz in a 100 litre sealed enclosure with a bit of LRC.
Also they do the Peerless XLS but name it BSB 10-200, they had to remove it from their site as a certain bird of prey complained
still this is the link http://www.bkelec.com/diy/bsb10-200.htm
Just I thought I would let you know, that BK will be introducing a Shiva 3 clone for £65 in March. This represents extremely good value as 2 could be purchased, and a THX Ultra type spec sub woofer built. I make this about 104dB at 20Hz in a 100 litre sealed enclosure with a bit of LRC.
Also they do the Peerless XLS but name it BSB 10-200, they had to remove it from their site as a certain bird of prey complained
still this is the link http://www.bkelec.com/diy/bsb10-200.htm
Hi guys, cheers for all the info, i have just finished building (and integrating) a sub for my car. I did this first to have a practice etc.
I'm now looking to build my HT sub. As i don't have much room, i'm going to be building a small (13") internal dimensions sealed box out of 3/4" MDF.
The reason for choosing this size and looking at the shiva is because of their recommended enclosures sheet, i just adjusted it upwards in size slightly.
So on that basis the Shiva clone that BK are going to sell sounds like a winner to me.
If anyone has any more info about it, that would be appreciated. I'm not in a hurry at the moment as I haven't started the box yet so this will give me time to make it properly.
If anyone has suggestions regarding these proposals, then I would appreciate any input etc.
I'm now looking to build my HT sub. As i don't have much room, i'm going to be building a small (13") internal dimensions sealed box out of 3/4" MDF.
The reason for choosing this size and looking at the shiva is because of their recommended enclosures sheet, i just adjusted it upwards in size slightly.
So on that basis the Shiva clone that BK are going to sell sounds like a winner to me.
If anyone has any more info about it, that would be appreciated. I'm not in a hurry at the moment as I haven't started the box yet so this will give me time to make it properly.
If anyone has suggestions regarding these proposals, then I would appreciate any input etc.
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