Seems like you should be able to design something pretty nice for that price. Just at a glance, you could power a bass tower with something like Behringer's Europower 2500 and use Velodyne's SMS-1 for bass management and room correction. That still leaves a fair amount of budget for drivers and materials...
Those subs definately aren't worth that price in the DIY world...
I'd bet 10 dayton 10" DVC's which PE sells for about $30/apeice would perform just as well(if not better). That would leave you with about $600 for cabinet construction after shipping and lets face it, you could have a professional cabinet maker build you some enclosures for less than that!
I'd bet 10 dayton 10" DVC's which PE sells for about $30/apeice would perform just as well(if not better). That would leave you with about $600 for cabinet construction after shipping and lets face it, you could have a professional cabinet maker build you some enclosures for less than that!
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Having built a few line arrays I can tell you the price is never enough.
Line arrays take more man power and labor to build,move,finish ect people have no idea what over all time is put into constructing a pair of line arrays to the complete stage.
Then when you add they are 99% of the time built one set ever 6-7 months. The tooling and set up is for one time use only.
Other words make a cut change the settings, and then make another cut. Mean while ever piece of material you cut for these arrays normally needs 2 people to make any time frame worth while cutting all the parts.
As noted when you assemble the cabinets same thing a 2 person job no way around it.(yes DIY your labor is your time)
Then moving the RAW cabinets requires 2 people, applying veneer again 2 people, standing them up laying them down to work on them with out damaging them is all 2 person job.
Other words all double the labor!
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Then you have not even started to package a pair of arrays for shipping.
That is a new can of
And believe me you can never over package as some carrier will still destroy a pair of crates and or drive a fork lift threw the side of a crate. Then fight with you over a insurance claim (stating you never packaged them correctly
So now you have built a custom pair of arrays.
You have to package them to get them to the customer in 1 PIECE.
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So you have to custom build (remember the crates are not sitting in any cabinet makes shop one size fits all ready to use) a pair of shipping crates. Line them with solid foam ,wrap the cabinets to prevent damage from scratches .
And did I say you need a few people to put them in the crates with out damaging them.
O but this is just a pair of line arrays what is wrong here!
Custom line arrays take a LOT of labor, and more free time than most even think that a cabinet shop would do. Why so they can help you get your dream system yet make a little money! And I do mean LITTLE.
Now mass produce them cabinets in China and have all the packing materials done ect in China and you can make anything happen for a price.
Believe me a pair of these sub arrays we do for $2900.00 for cabinets then add $400.00 for the cost of building the crates and then last the shipping.
They must go freight insured.
Cost for a pair of these from Sumas WA to Florida insured cost $345.00.
Now that pair of array sub cabinets just cost $3645.00
OK break down here.
$375.00 1.25" MDF $125.00 sheet 3 sheets
$1100.00 Paduk veneer $275.00 sheet 4 sheets
$65.00 shipping of the veneer to us
$100.00 Misc supplies. Glue, Lacquer ,stain ect
$425.00 for damping material installed
$125.00 for wire installed in the cabinet
$135.00 for terminals installed on the rear (cardas)
Total
$2325 in materials alone
$575.00 labor (working for less than $10hr)
Total
$2900.00 for a pair of veneered sub cabinet arrays.
Now the big question what business or cabinet person can afford to work for less that $10.00 hr.
But you know waht we have a happy customer
This is why the DIY is around.
Elemental Designs, who uses CNC MDF cutters, can make you the cabinet you want, I guarantee it will be less than 1500 dollars. However you have to apply your own finish. Veneer, as RAW has shown, can be expensive, but doesn't have to be. Using non-exotic finishes like maple, cherry, walnut, etc. can be had for far less. Even nice burls can be had for less while still offering a more exotic finish. Also, ebay can be a good way to get unusual veneers for cheap, but can also be risky.
Alot of the pricing RAW is giving is at the high end of what things cost, you can do it for less, you just have to be savy about how and where you get your parts.
For comparison, I recently had an enclosure made that was 38" tall and 18" wide by 24" deep. It is well braced and built from 1.5" MDF. They did all the cutting for me, but I will be veneering the cabinet myself, along with supplying my own dampening material, terminal cup, wire, etc. I currently have those parts and they cost me around 300 dollars total, using a basic Cherry Veneer. The Cabinet was 450 dollars and 100 dollars shipping. Thats a total of 850 dollars for the cabinet and all its supplies. My specific project is using a plate amp from Elemental Designs which was something like 500, but I got a discount, so I think I payed 300, and then 4-12" Dayton Refrence series subs, and I believe that cost me around 450 shipped after my discount. Lets see that brings the grand total to around 1600 dollars or so, I believe. Oh by the way, these are mounted two on the front and two on the back with a slot port, so not an array, but the enclosure is still about the same. Had I gone with the 10" woofers and mounted them all on the front, that would be an array, no, and would have fit within those dimensions. I am making these for a friend, and he is paying me 1600 for the parts, or something like that, and then once he is fully happy with them, we agreed upon 200 dollars for the labor. I'm sure the man hours will far exceed that, but I appreciate his willingness to offer anything, I didn't ask for any profit.
-Never mind I just realized the cabinet is only 38" tall, so couldnt fit 4 on the front, but ok, stretch it by say 5" or so, and I think it would fit ok. You could make it taller and narrower. Oh shipping goes way up if you make a cabinet beyond a certain size that requires special shipping. I dimensionsed this one so that, according to my guy at Elemental, it wont need that, and it allowed shipping to be somewhat less. I dont know if this is ok by you, but you could have a bunch of 36" tall cabinents made, with 2-12" woofers in each, and stack them. That way you still get the array effect, and save money on shipping. I believe a lot of companies build speakers in a modular form like that, and I see no reason why it would impact the sound.
Alot of the pricing RAW is giving is at the high end of what things cost, you can do it for less, you just have to be savy about how and where you get your parts.
For comparison, I recently had an enclosure made that was 38" tall and 18" wide by 24" deep. It is well braced and built from 1.5" MDF. They did all the cutting for me, but I will be veneering the cabinet myself, along with supplying my own dampening material, terminal cup, wire, etc. I currently have those parts and they cost me around 300 dollars total, using a basic Cherry Veneer. The Cabinet was 450 dollars and 100 dollars shipping. Thats a total of 850 dollars for the cabinet and all its supplies. My specific project is using a plate amp from Elemental Designs which was something like 500, but I got a discount, so I think I payed 300, and then 4-12" Dayton Refrence series subs, and I believe that cost me around 450 shipped after my discount. Lets see that brings the grand total to around 1600 dollars or so, I believe. Oh by the way, these are mounted two on the front and two on the back with a slot port, so not an array, but the enclosure is still about the same. Had I gone with the 10" woofers and mounted them all on the front, that would be an array, no, and would have fit within those dimensions. I am making these for a friend, and he is paying me 1600 for the parts, or something like that, and then once he is fully happy with them, we agreed upon 200 dollars for the labor. I'm sure the man hours will far exceed that, but I appreciate his willingness to offer anything, I didn't ask for any profit.
-Never mind I just realized the cabinet is only 38" tall, so couldnt fit 4 on the front, but ok, stretch it by say 5" or so, and I think it would fit ok. You could make it taller and narrower. Oh shipping goes way up if you make a cabinet beyond a certain size that requires special shipping. I dimensionsed this one so that, according to my guy at Elemental, it wont need that, and it allowed shipping to be somewhat less. I dont know if this is ok by you, but you could have a bunch of 36" tall cabinents made, with 2-12" woofers in each, and stack them. That way you still get the array effect, and save money on shipping. I believe a lot of companies build speakers in a modular form like that, and I see no reason why it would impact the sound.
Yes do some looking around I agree.
The sub towers I just made note of are in line withg yours.
That pair of arrays is 80" tall 20" width and 20" depth.
So really double you $850.00 and add in some exotic veneer and we are talking the same money.
And as noted shipping will shock most people as the shipping is not only the cost that people are shocked with but the materials needed to prevent large speakers from getting damaged during the hands that handle them
And the more the project weighs the better you had package it.
The sub towers I just made note of are in line withg yours.
That pair of arrays is 80" tall 20" width and 20" depth.
So really double you $850.00 and add in some exotic veneer and we are talking the same money.
And as noted shipping will shock most people as the shipping is not only the cost that people are shocked with but the materials needed to prevent large speakers from getting damaged during the hands that handle them
And the more the project weighs the better you had package it.
yeah thats why I either need to stock up on some tools, which I can't afford really, or start getting good at designing modular designs. At this point I have been playing with modular designs. Keeps the shipping way down.
80" tall geez, wow, I guess that is the needed height for a real array but I hadn't even thought about what I would have to do in order to get that kind of height. I myself am not looking for an array though, don't have the room, but given my suggestion of a modular design, I think a 40" box is too big. That means maybe 4-20" boxes or 3-26" boxes or whatever.
Yeah exotic veneer is definatly expensive, but if trying to save money, that is one area you can save quite a bit. I think in the last two years the biggest lesson I have learned is that frequently the drivers are one the cheapest components in a speaker or subwoofer. I mean, passive crossover components are expensive, especially good ones. MDF adds up, Birch Ply is even more. I have wanted to play with exotic veneers but can't bring myself to shell out. My biggest concern is that I wont do it right, and I haven't been able to match the grain very well either.
80" tall geez, wow, I guess that is the needed height for a real array but I hadn't even thought about what I would have to do in order to get that kind of height. I myself am not looking for an array though, don't have the room, but given my suggestion of a modular design, I think a 40" box is too big. That means maybe 4-20" boxes or 3-26" boxes or whatever.
Yeah exotic veneer is definatly expensive, but if trying to save money, that is one area you can save quite a bit. I think in the last two years the biggest lesson I have learned is that frequently the drivers are one the cheapest components in a speaker or subwoofer. I mean, passive crossover components are expensive, especially good ones. MDF adds up, Birch Ply is even more. I have wanted to play with exotic veneers but can't bring myself to shell out. My biggest concern is that I wont do it right, and I haven't been able to match the grain very well either.
If you get the measurements down well you might be able to trick the local Home Hardware into cutting all the pieces for you at ~0.25c to 0.50c per cut
Then just take it home and put it together. Good idea to have a power sander as their equipment isnt always perfect..
Other more complicated cuts can be done by yourself, but the main bulk of them would be done with that bit of work.
Cutting the speaker holes can be done with a router if you've got one (build/buy circle-guide for it) or jigsaw..
Too bad nobody makes a giant hole-cutter attachment for electric drills.. heh.
Then just take it home and put it together. Good idea to have a power sander as their equipment isnt always perfect..
Other more complicated cuts can be done by yourself, but the main bulk of them would be done with that bit of work.
Cutting the speaker holes can be done with a router if you've got one (build/buy circle-guide for it) or jigsaw..
Too bad nobody makes a giant hole-cutter attachment for electric drills.. heh.
home despot will make your cuts for pocket change if you buy a whole board. in past experience i have found their cuts to be the best. i own a table saw, but still prefer to have them make my cuts with the plank saw they all seem to have.
as for templates for woofer cutouts: sheet metal works best as a guide. drill a hole through the center of your template(i use 1/8" guide whole), mark your center lines, line up hole, insert nail. cut around the edge using a spiral saw (try not to hit the template ). piece falls out, insert sub!
as for templates for woofer cutouts: sheet metal works best as a guide. drill a hole through the center of your template(i use 1/8" guide whole), mark your center lines, line up hole, insert nail. cut around the edge using a spiral saw (try not to hit the template ). piece falls out, insert sub!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1135558#post1135558
the most close to electrostats, cone drivers,
i've experienced, would be altecs-
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads.html
might be a closer match, than other drivers
1001
the most close to electrostats, cone drivers,
i've experienced, would be altecs-
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads.html
might be a closer match, than other drivers
1001
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