http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm
This whole "Transmission line speaker" concept seems incredibly simple in design {if you have time, read all the way to the end, to see the single driver set ups}, and really inexpensive to build (using sono-tube).......
.....However, after a few hours of research, I have not found any guidelines, based on driver specs, for diameter and length of the sono tube ???
Oh.... and why would you have to stand them vertically in the corners of your room ? I think they would look pretty cool strapped horizontally to the top left and right corners of a room
....like big internal fuel tanks or something crazy. Hey, their are benefits to being single ;-)
Anybody here put a sub at one end of a big tube, and get jaw-dropping results ?
Your thoughts ?
Fish
This whole "Transmission line speaker" concept seems incredibly simple in design {if you have time, read all the way to the end, to see the single driver set ups}, and really inexpensive to build (using sono-tube).......
.....However, after a few hours of research, I have not found any guidelines, based on driver specs, for diameter and length of the sono tube ???
Oh.... and why would you have to stand them vertically in the corners of your room ? I think they would look pretty cool strapped horizontally to the top left and right corners of a room
....like big internal fuel tanks or something crazy. Hey, their are benefits to being single ;-)Anybody here put a sub at one end of a big tube, and get jaw-dropping results ?
Your thoughts ?
Fish
Come on guys.....
don't be scared ;-)
Here's some cool stuff on "Transmission line" sub theory: http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jglettle/section/rapture/basstheory.html
How could a bass lover read this, and not have his mind start spinning ?
If TL enclosures are vastly better than ported, band-pass, or sealed enclosures, why are so many people so reluctant to try one ?
As far as I'm concerned, the large, unusual shape, and the fact that hardly anyone is using them, makes them even more attractive to me !
Peace,
Fish
don't be scared ;-)
Here's some cool stuff on "Transmission line" sub theory: http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jglettle/section/rapture/basstheory.html
How could a bass lover read this, and not have his mind start spinning ?
If TL enclosures are vastly better than ported, band-pass, or sealed enclosures, why are so many people so reluctant to try one ?
As far as I'm concerned, the large, unusual shape, and the fact that hardly anyone is using them, makes them even more attractive to me !
Peace,
Fish
Right on Fast 1 !
I have a lot of respect for people who aren't afraid to step out of the box.
BTW, right now I'm fixing to go discuss TL's with an old buddy who owns a stereo shop. I'm sure he has some 12" to 15"s laying around, and certainly a test amp...... So, I might just offer to buy the sono-tube and see if we can play with TL's a little bit. Then, if we hit on something big, I might just have to copy that setup for myself !
Will be following your progress Fast1.
Wishing you luck on your TL.
Peace,
Fish
I have a lot of respect for people who aren't afraid to step out of the box.
BTW, right now I'm fixing to go discuss TL's with an old buddy who owns a stereo shop. I'm sure he has some 12" to 15"s laying around, and certainly a test amp...... So, I might just offer to buy the sono-tube and see if we can play with TL's a little bit. Then, if we hit on something big, I might just have to copy that setup for myself !
Will be following your progress Fast1.
Wishing you luck on your TL.
Peace,
Fish
Hey Fast1....
Yea'... more specifically, the Fairfield area. I go through Modesto pretty much every year though, on my way to Yosemite.
Hey BTW, my old buddy at the stereo shop was out today, but I plan to go chat with him tomorrow. And you know, the more I think about it, even without any hard and fast numbers to go by, I can't imagine a speaker enclosure type that would allow for easier experimentation, than that of a TL.... Too low... cut some off. Too high... add some stuffing Check with a meter after each change, until you get it dialed in just right.....
Anxious to play with these....
Peace,
Fish
Yea'... more specifically, the Fairfield area. I go through Modesto pretty much every year though, on my way to Yosemite.
Hey BTW, my old buddy at the stereo shop was out today, but I plan to go chat with him tomorrow. And you know, the more I think about it, even without any hard and fast numbers to go by, I can't imagine a speaker enclosure type that would allow for easier experimentation, than that of a TL.... Too low... cut some off. Too high... add some stuffing
Check with a meter after each change, until you get it dialed in just right.....Anxious to play with these....
Peace,
Fish
Hi Fish,
Here is a thread discussing the use of a double (tube-in-a-tube) sono tube design. It has some numbers, both conceptual and actual.
Here is a thread discussing the use of a double (tube-in-a-tube) sono tube design. It has some numbers, both conceptual and actual.
Thank you roddyama....
pretty cool, although quite a bit more complicated than just a straight tube.
Again, I have to ask..... "Why do these enclosures have to stand vertically ? I mean sure, many of us have 8ft ceilings, but whats wrong with having one of these running 12ft or more, across the upper corner of ones living room.... like above the couch or something ??? I mean... Okay..... So it's big, and odd, and crazy..... Yea'.... That's why it's in Fish Chris' living room
Another thought.... although sono-tube might be easier to work with, and cheaper too, if one were to go with PVC, you can actually get 90, and even 180 degree elbows in every size which PVC is made. I think it has already been proven that bends in a tube have very little effect on the sound pressure waves..... I think I want mine to start from the living room floor, rise to the ceiling, travel across one upper corner of the room, then turn and end up in the dining room ! 24 feet ? No problem LOL
......actually, I just brainstomed a way of putting 90's or 180's in sono tube as well......
Peace,
Fish
pretty cool, although quite a bit more complicated than just a straight tube.
Again, I have to ask..... "Why do these enclosures have to stand vertically ? I mean sure, many of us have 8ft ceilings, but whats wrong with having one of these running 12ft or more, across the upper corner of ones living room.... like above the couch or something ??? I mean... Okay..... So it's big, and odd, and crazy..... Yea'.... That's why it's in Fish Chris' living room
Another thought.... although sono-tube might be easier to work with, and cheaper too, if one were to go with PVC, you can actually get 90, and even 180 degree elbows in every size which PVC is made. I think it has already been proven that bends in a tube have very little effect on the sound pressure waves..... I think I want mine to start from the living room floor, rise to the ceiling, travel across one upper corner of the room, then turn and end up in the dining room !
24 feet ? No problem LOL......actually, I just brainstomed a way of putting 90's or 180's in sono tube as well......
Peace,
Fish
The demise of El Pipe-O????
For the record, Sy's been up to the Pass Labs factory and heard El Pipe-O in full song at Nelson's home.
Also for the record, El Pipe-O and the Klein Horn pairs went to an artists collective in Oakland CA and were set up in an old industrial space down on "the flats" which was turned into a “rave” club.
According to local bay area hyperbole & gossip El Pipe-O quickly damaged the old concrete structure and the performing artists after being severely chaste were run over the horizon and into the sunset by the landlord and angry neighbors brandishing pitchforks and blazing torches.
So ends the saga of El Pipe-O….. perhaps.
Cyclotronguy
For the record, Sy's been up to the Pass Labs factory and heard El Pipe-O in full song at Nelson's home.
Also for the record, El Pipe-O and the Klein Horn pairs went to an artists collective in Oakland CA and were set up in an old industrial space down on "the flats" which was turned into a “rave” club.
According to local bay area hyperbole & gossip El Pipe-O quickly damaged the old concrete structure and the performing artists after being severely chaste were run over the horizon and into the sunset by the landlord and angry neighbors brandishing pitchforks and blazing torches.
So ends the saga of El Pipe-O….. perhaps.
Cyclotronguy
NP's = Nelson Pass.
Nelson (revered here at work as "The Great Pass") would be the father of Pass Labs and before that "Threshold".
Nelson also the head scribe and chief wizard at his alternate persona's "Firstwatt" and PassDIY.
"Back in the day" a cohort of Oscar Heil while at ESS.
Cyclotronguy
Nelson (revered here at work as "The Great Pass") would be the father of Pass Labs and before that "Threshold".
Nelson also the head scribe and chief wizard at his alternate persona's "Firstwatt" and PassDIY.
"Back in the day" a cohort of Oscar Heil while at ESS.
Cyclotronguy
Ive built 2 sonotube pipe subs so far, they are quick to build and sound great.
my ultimate version of el pipo features an industrial 18" 4"voice coiled 98db per watt@ 1 metre, simply siliconed into the 18" tube thats 10 ft long, filled with fiberglass and lives in a 250 seat cinema
The other is a 12" car speaker in a 12" 8ft length of sonotube filled with polyester that lives in my living room.
well worth the effort is my opionion.
my ultimate version of el pipo features an industrial 18" 4"voice coiled 98db per watt@ 1 metre, simply siliconed into the 18" tube thats 10 ft long, filled with fiberglass and lives in a 250 seat cinema
The other is a 12" car speaker in a 12" 8ft length of sonotube filled with polyester that lives in my living room.
well worth the effort is my opionion.
I have been experimenting with transmission line woofers at home. I purchased the last couple of 12" Shivas(I like the XBL tech!) available. Using 8 feet of 12" sonotube and a few bags of fiberfill it really sounded great,so I made a second. Even better! Tons of deep bass.
Since we are home theater/AV installers here in Minnesota, I was tempted to try the lines in a "real" (meaning paid for) installation. This theater had a 3 feet of space or so behind the fabric Screen Research screen and surrounding GOM fabric "Scrim" wall,so it would be easy to hide the unfinished and pretty ugly TLs. We placed them at 1/3rd points across the front of the room. Initial listening impressions were good, It seemed I could actually use these in a critical (read expensive installations. I then applied the automatic equalizer circuit included with the Lexicon MC12 processor. This optional board covers 250hz to 20hz using 10 outputs with 7 point per channel parametric adjustments. Things got much much better. It sounded and felt like a real train was rolling through the theater.
Admittedly best near the microphone placement locations.
Music was fantastic as well It seemed the TLs really benefited from this eq. It now seemed like a solid 25hz or lower was being effortlessly reproduced.
OK, I might consider taking this to another level. I have read the "El-Pipo" article. I could fit the tube on it's side behind a similar fabric wall feeding the 21" woofer the LFE output from the Lex. Then use the same 12"version for the left and right subwoofers.
This might get spectacular!
I was not clear on the length of El-Pipo 12' or 14'? It obviously would be easier to fit the 12. Anyone else experimenting with equalizing TLs?
P.S. I have attached a picture of the TLs during the installation
Since we are home theater/AV installers here in Minnesota, I was tempted to try the lines in a "real" (meaning paid for) installation. This theater had a 3 feet of space or so behind the fabric Screen Research screen and surrounding GOM fabric "Scrim" wall,so it would be easy to hide the unfinished and pretty ugly TLs. We placed them at 1/3rd points across the front of the room. Initial listening impressions were good, It seemed I could actually use these in a critical (read expensive
installations. I then applied the automatic equalizer circuit included with the Lexicon MC12 processor. This optional board covers 250hz to 20hz using 10 outputs with 7 point per channel parametric adjustments. Things got much much better. It sounded and felt like a real train was rolling through the theater. Admittedly best near the microphone placement locations.
Music was fantastic as well It seemed the TLs really benefited from this eq. It now seemed like a solid 25hz or lower was being effortlessly reproduced.
OK, I might consider taking this to another level. I have read the "El-Pipo" article. I could fit the tube on it's side behind a similar fabric wall feeding the 21" woofer the LFE output from the Lex. Then use the same 12"version for the left and right subwoofers.
This might get spectacular!
I was not clear on the length of El-Pipo 12' or 14'? It obviously would be easier to fit the 12. Anyone else experimenting with equalizing TLs?
P.S. I have attached a picture of the TLs during the installation
Attachments
Do keep in mind that there is even more performance potential in El Pipo... the pipe for the 21" woofer is a tad small to get the most out of it (as would be a 12" pipe for a Shiva)
Anyone who has heard either is, i'm sure, wondering how more could be had from them given how good they already are.
dave
Anyone who has heard either is, i'm sure, wondering how more could be had from them given how good they already are.
dave
Lil Pipe-Os
I'm waiting on back-ordered TB 8'' rs to try and roll the baby ones mentioned by NP in the article. Using 6' lengths of 8" SonoTube as a starting point. I knew that old amp (Sunn 6000)I picked up at the thrift store would have a use one day soon..........
Will post pics and results when got something to report
I'm waiting on back-ordered TB 8'' rs to try and roll the baby ones mentioned by NP in the article. Using 6' lengths of 8" SonoTube as a starting point. I knew that old amp (Sunn 6000)I picked up at the thrift store would have a use one day soon..........
Will post pics and results when got something to report
hmmm I'm thinking... nah... yea... nah... YEAH!...
I built a curved screen for my projector, and currently have about 20" round space in each corner, how do these go/sound in corners? ie can I build 2 x tube-in-tube 18" outside tube with 9 feet maximum height in each corner?
and anyone know where I can get some cheapish high sensitivity woofers in australia that will work in a tube-in-tube configuration?
Hehehehe, I'm gonna call call them my t.i.t. woofers
I built a curved screen for my projector, and currently have about 20" round space in each corner, how do these go/sound in corners? ie can I build 2 x tube-in-tube 18" outside tube with 9 feet maximum height in each corner?
and anyone know where I can get some cheapish high sensitivity woofers in australia that will work in a tube-in-tube configuration?
Hehehehe, I'm gonna call call them my t.i.t. woofers
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