First off, here is my goal;
Soon I will be purchasing a home theater system, which I have researched, and found to be one of the "best bangs for the buck" as far as HTiB setups go... The Onkyo 790. (Only $400 from Circuit City .com
It actually comes with a nice little 12" powered sub that "Onkyo says" puts out 230wts. I haven't heard it yet, but several have said I will be plesantly surprised. Hmmm. Okay.
But what I really want to do, is to build a "super-sub" enclosure, to use along with the rest of my HT, including the 12" sub (which will then be allowed to work a little more as a mid-base driver).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So anyway, "I thought" I had my mind made up on a couple of things..... like a pair of Dayton Titanic 15"s.... but I come here to find a few guys saying they aren't all that. Okay fine. Then tell me about another speaker which will blow it away with very deep bass from say 40Hz down to 16Hz..... Oh, and since I'm a poor man, I need to stay below $200 each. (I can get the 15" Titanics on E-bay for $150)
Next, I thought I would buy a Crown Amp in the 750 to 800wt per channel into 4ohm range..... But then a few guys say that "even the big pro amps" have a hard time with bass power in the 16Hz to 25Hz range. Okay, then which amp ? Again, since I'm a poor guy, I was looking at a Crown amp like I mentioned, for about $400 on E-bay.
Finally, I have heard a few guys say, "Don't even consider a flat response" without using an EQ...... Geeez, that's a whole other device that I hadn't even planned on buying..... But remember, I only want my super-sub enclosure to cover a very narrow range, from say 40Hz to 16Hz anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, with all this said, I'm pretty good at building enclosures, and I can make one as big as it needs to be. Cubic yards are not a problem
But I do like building tuned port enclosures.
Suggestions from the sub gurus on speakers, amps, and enclosures please.
Thank you very much,
Fish Chris
PS, My biggest concern (aside from not getting enough earth shaking, super-low frequency bass) is bottoming out my speakers... regardless of which ones I end up going with......
Soon I will be purchasing a home theater system, which I have researched, and found to be one of the "best bangs for the buck" as far as HTiB setups go... The Onkyo 790. (Only $400 from Circuit City .com
It actually comes with a nice little 12" powered sub that "Onkyo says" puts out 230wts. I haven't heard it yet, but several have said I will be plesantly surprised. Hmmm. Okay.
But what I really want to do, is to build a "super-sub" enclosure, to use along with the rest of my HT, including the 12" sub (which will then be allowed to work a little more as a mid-base driver).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So anyway, "I thought" I had my mind made up on a couple of things..... like a pair of Dayton Titanic 15"s.... but I come here to find a few guys saying they aren't all that. Okay fine. Then tell me about another speaker which will blow it away with very deep bass from say 40Hz down to 16Hz..... Oh, and since I'm a poor man, I need to stay below $200 each. (I can get the 15" Titanics on E-bay for $150)
Next, I thought I would buy a Crown Amp in the 750 to 800wt per channel into 4ohm range..... But then a few guys say that "even the big pro amps" have a hard time with bass power in the 16Hz to 25Hz range. Okay, then which amp ? Again, since I'm a poor guy, I was looking at a Crown amp like I mentioned, for about $400 on E-bay.
Finally, I have heard a few guys say, "Don't even consider a flat response" without using an EQ...... Geeez, that's a whole other device that I hadn't even planned on buying..... But remember, I only want my super-sub enclosure to cover a very narrow range, from say 40Hz to 16Hz anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, with all this said, I'm pretty good at building enclosures, and I can make one as big as it needs to be. Cubic yards are not a problem
But I do like building tuned port enclosures.Suggestions from the sub gurus on speakers, amps, and enclosures please.
Thank you very much,
Fish Chris
PS, My biggest concern (aside from not getting enough earth shaking, super-low frequency bass) is bottoming out my speakers... regardless of which ones I end up going with......
Hi, Fish.
I wouldn't necessarily let one or two opinions dissuade you. Most people that I have read or spoken to seem to feel that the Dayton Titanics are very good value for the price.
In 2005, both Adire and Ascendant announced new product lines, including some 15 inchers in my price range. Over a year later, neither company has produced, and I suspect they have changed their plans. I am getting fed up with waiting, so I'll probably get a pair of the 15" Titanics soon, for about the same price. It will be more work to build two boxes, but I might actually end up with better bass with two subs instead of one.
/D
I wouldn't necessarily let one or two opinions dissuade you. Most people that I have read or spoken to seem to feel that the Dayton Titanics are very good value for the price.
In 2005, both Adire and Ascendant announced new product lines, including some 15 inchers in my price range. Over a year later, neither company has produced, and I suspect they have changed their plans. I am getting fed up with waiting, so I'll probably get a pair of the 15" Titanics soon, for about the same price. It will be more work to build two boxes, but I might actually end up with better bass with two subs instead of one.
/D
Since you've stated that large is not a problem, I'd definitely look through the Home Theater Shack article on LLT (Large Low Tuned) subs available here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-projects/1820-llt-explained.html
I would consider myself to have a sub that verges on being a LLT. I own an Ascendant Audio Assassin 12" in a ~6.5 ft^3 enclosure tuned to ~15 Hz. I'm only a high schooler, and I bought the driver at the introductory price of $75, a 350W plate amp from mcminone for another $50, and finally a used BFD 1124P on ebay for another $60. While it is not the ultimate sub, it definitely holds its own for the price payed. If I were you, I'd look for a the driver you want, that is compatible with a LLT type of enclosure and spend the most money there. Then start with an amp that has reasonable power for what you need. If that's not enough, you can always sell the amp or keep it for another project and upgrade to something larger. After listening to your sub for a while, decide whether or not you need an EQ. I used my sub for a good six months, trying out different positions in my room before I bit the bullet and bought my BFD (very small concrete basement bedroom provides for a very peaky bass response in the 40-50 Hz region). If you decide you need the EQ, look for a good deal on used units on Ebay. Some have noted that Behringer products have more noise than higher priced equipment, but I have yet to notice any noise emanating from my sub.
Also, since you've mentioned building multiple sub enclosures, careful positioning of the separate subs can reduce room modes a lot which may make it unnecessary to acquire an EQ.
Lastly, I would strongly suggest using just the sub you build and forgetting about the 12" that comes with the HTIB. It creates just another problem for crossing over smoothly, and it probably will produce more noise than anything.
I would consider myself to have a sub that verges on being a LLT. I own an Ascendant Audio Assassin 12" in a ~6.5 ft^3 enclosure tuned to ~15 Hz. I'm only a high schooler, and I bought the driver at the introductory price of $75, a 350W plate amp from mcminone for another $50, and finally a used BFD 1124P on ebay for another $60. While it is not the ultimate sub, it definitely holds its own for the price payed. If I were you, I'd look for a the driver you want, that is compatible with a LLT type of enclosure and spend the most money there. Then start with an amp that has reasonable power for what you need. If that's not enough, you can always sell the amp or keep it for another project and upgrade to something larger. After listening to your sub for a while, decide whether or not you need an EQ. I used my sub for a good six months, trying out different positions in my room before I bit the bullet and bought my BFD (very small concrete basement bedroom provides for a very peaky bass response in the 40-50 Hz region). If you decide you need the EQ, look for a good deal on used units on Ebay. Some have noted that Behringer products have more noise than higher priced equipment, but I have yet to notice any noise emanating from my sub.
Also, since you've mentioned building multiple sub enclosures, careful positioning of the separate subs can reduce room modes a lot which may make it unnecessary to acquire an EQ.
Lastly, I would strongly suggest using just the sub you build and forgetting about the 12" that comes with the HTIB. It creates just another problem for crossing over smoothly, and it probably will produce more noise than anything.
Thank you guys....
I have started looking into LLT enclosures now..... and even what I'm seeing called 'large' seems pretty modest to me. Heck, I think by building an enclosure 'tall' I could easily make it 1000 liters, or even larger if it would help, and still not take up much floor space.
But anyway, to be quite honest, I sure would like to find a guru on here somewhere using a couple 15"s for a similar purpose to my own, of which I could play "follow the leader" with (with his design parameters).... and you guys gotta' know this is SO unlike me.... Oh well. I might be lurking for a while
Thanks again,
Fish
I have started looking into LLT enclosures now..... and even what I'm seeing called 'large' seems pretty modest to me. Heck, I think by building an enclosure 'tall' I could easily make it 1000 liters, or even larger if it would help, and still not take up much floor space.
But anyway, to be quite honest, I sure would like to find a guru on here somewhere using a couple 15"s for a similar purpose to my own, of which I could play "follow the leader" with (with his design parameters).... and you guys gotta' know this is SO unlike me.... Oh well. I might be lurking for a while
Thanks again,
Fish
Fish,
If you can live with that sort of size, I'd look into enormous transmission lines or even back loaded horns. GM is probably the man to ask about such things. I have BLH/TL mains (known as the BIB's), and they are about 250 liters each.
I would caution that you be sure you can lift and move whatever you decide to build. Mine are very light for their size (under 150lbs). Given the combination of size and weight, and the fact that we move frequently (students/early in our careers), they are about the max I'd want to handle.
Also, price the wood. With such large panels, I would strongly suggest high grade ply (Marine or Baltic Birch, for ridgidity and weight savings, hf resonances won't matter much in a sub) The absolute cheapest passable stuff I could find set me back $250. Figure out how much it will take to build a 1000 litre cab (properly braced), and you may be singing a different tune.
This is not to disuade you; I think everyone should build the largest sub they can stand. Again, hopefully GM will chime in, but here are some ideas:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html
http://www.passdiy.com/projects/el-pipe-o-1.htm
There might be something in here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88104&highlight=
I'd wonder about a two fold BIB, with a low Fs 15" and a longer path than anything we've disussed. One driver should do fine, and it wouldn't need a large amp. Save the rest of your $$ for ply and a digital EQ to deal with the room.
pj
If you can live with that sort of size, I'd look into enormous transmission lines or even back loaded horns. GM is probably the man to ask about such things. I have BLH/TL mains (known as the BIB's), and they are about 250 liters each.
I would caution that you be sure you can lift and move whatever you decide to build. Mine are very light for their size (under 150lbs). Given the combination of size and weight, and the fact that we move frequently (students/early in our careers), they are about the max I'd want to handle.
Also, price the wood. With such large panels, I would strongly suggest high grade ply (Marine or Baltic Birch, for ridgidity and weight savings, hf resonances won't matter much in a sub) The absolute cheapest passable stuff I could find set me back $250. Figure out how much it will take to build a 1000 litre cab (properly braced), and you may be singing a different tune.
This is not to disuade you; I think everyone should build the largest sub they can stand. Again, hopefully GM will chime in, but here are some ideas:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html
http://www.passdiy.com/projects/el-pipe-o-1.htm
There might be something in here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88104&highlight=
I'd wonder about a two fold BIB, with a low Fs 15" and a longer path than anything we've disussed. One driver should do fine, and it wouldn't need a large amp. Save the rest of your $$ for ply and a digital EQ to deal with the room.
pj
Hi Fish Chris,
The LLT type of enclosure is a good choice for a sub and so is the DBR that I find easier to extend even further lower, especially if only the infra octaves and the lowest modal octave up to 40 Hz is the main target.
Mach5 Audio sells an 18” /8Ohm driver (the 4 Ohm version is out of stock) that modeled in a DBR with size H x W x D: 165 x 45 x 50 cm^3 = 371 Liters or 13.1 cubic feet.
The output port is a duct and critical standing waves is avoided at 344/1.6 x 8 = 27 Hz by stuffing.
This speaker should be crossed over at no more than 40 Hz and if higher the duct must be braced.
This driver is very competitive priced at $71.31 and the MJ-18 8 Ohm can be purchased at http://www.mach5audio.com
The speaker extends from 40 Hz (108 dB SPL/max 175W at X-max) with a smooth 12 dB slope down to about 8 Hz (96 dB SPL/max 175W at X-max) and in an ordinary room when placed against a wall especially close to corner, typical room gain will even flatten the FR curve to below 8 Hz.
When placed at a wall but not close to a corner see Plotted SPL Response for the System or Plotted Corrected SPL Response for the System where ‘room gain’ = + 6 dB is used.
See the pictures.
b
1(4)
The LLT type of enclosure is a good choice for a sub and so is the DBR that I find easier to extend even further lower, especially if only the infra octaves and the lowest modal octave up to 40 Hz is the main target.
Mach5 Audio sells an 18” /8Ohm driver (the 4 Ohm version is out of stock) that modeled in a DBR with size H x W x D: 165 x 45 x 50 cm^3 = 371 Liters or 13.1 cubic feet.
The output port is a duct and critical standing waves is avoided at 344/1.6 x 8 = 27 Hz by stuffing.
This speaker should be crossed over at no more than 40 Hz and if higher the duct must be braced.
This driver is very competitive priced at $71.31 and the MJ-18 8 Ohm can be purchased at http://www.mach5audio.com
The speaker extends from 40 Hz (108 dB SPL/max 175W at X-max) with a smooth 12 dB slope down to about 8 Hz (96 dB SPL/max 175W at X-max) and in an ordinary room when placed against a wall especially close to corner, typical room gain will even flatten the FR curve to below 8 Hz.
When placed at a wall but not close to a corner see Plotted SPL Response for the System or Plotted Corrected SPL Response for the System where ‘room gain’ = + 6 dB is used.
See the pictures.
b
1(4)
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Cult of the Infinitely Baffled
If you like superb performance, really large enclosures, and great bang for the buck...use your basement, garage, attic, etc for the enclosure. See link.
If you like superb performance, really large enclosures, and great bang for the buck...use your basement, garage, attic, etc for the enclosure. See link.
Rythmik In Progress...
I am in the middle of building a Rythmik Audio Servo Sub. The kits offered by Brian are very reasonably priced and should provide very adequate bass in your desired reason for your target price. I will post response curves and pictures when I am done (hopefully this week)
Check out his website at:
www.rythmikaudio.com
Also, on enclosures, I just looked at the current review at audioholics.com for the Velodyne dd-18. Is anyone elese shocked about the lack of bracing in a $5,000.00 subwoofer?
I am in the middle of building a Rythmik Audio Servo Sub. The kits offered by Brian are very reasonably priced and should provide very adequate bass in your desired reason for your target price. I will post response curves and pictures when I am done (hopefully this week)
Check out his website at:
www.rythmikaudio.com
Also, on enclosures, I just looked at the current review at audioholics.com for the Velodyne dd-18. Is anyone elese shocked about the lack of bracing in a $5,000.00 subwoofer?
Couple more things....
Hey LightWaveDude, when you say > I would strongly suggest using just the sub you build and forgetting about the 12" that comes with the HTIB. It creates just another problem for crossing over smoothly, and it probably will produce more noise than anything. < I hear what your saying... and "IF" I had serious issues because of this, I guess I might have to leave out the powered 12 incher.... But "with it", I would be able to use the system "as is" (without my super-sub set up) during those times when I wasn't actually trying to shake the house down... you know, early in the morning, after a long day, for the local news, etc.
Hey Bjorno, thank you for showing me those Mach's...... The price is certainly right. Can you, or anybody here please compare these specs, and tell me how this would help / hurt my idea for lots of 40Hz and down bass >
This is for the Mach5, 18" sub (and heck, at $72 each, I could afford 4 of them !)
T/S Parameters - MJ-18 - 8 / 4 Ohms
Fs = 30.4 / 28 Hz
Re = 7.2 / 3.2 Ohms
Qes = 0.39 / 0.34
Qms = 3.41 / 4.99
Qts = 0.35 / 0.31
Mms = 219 / 229 grams
Rms = 12.3 / 8.1 kg/s
Cms = 0.100 / 0.14 mm/N
VAS = 243.8 / 208.4 litres
Sd = 1029.2 cm2
Xmax = 12 mm
Cone Diameter = 36.20 cm
Recommended Box Sizes:
Sealed: 80 litres (2.8 cu. ft.)
Ported: 128 litres (4.5 cu. ft.) 30Hz tuning
EBS: 250 litres (8.8 cu. ft.) 18Hz tuning
And this is for the Dayton Titanic 15"
TITI400C-4 15" Titanic MKIII Specifications
Power handling: 800 watts RMS/1,100 watts max
VCdia: 2-1/2"
Le: 3.84 mH
Impedance: 4 ohms
Re: 3.68 ohms
Frequency range: 19-500 Hz
Magnet weight: 136oz.
Fs: 19.93 Hz
SPL: 91.7 dB 2.83V/1m
Vas: 7.79 cu. ft.
Qms: 5.89
Qes: .41
Qts: .38
Xmax: 20.5 mm
Dimensions:
Overall Diameter: 15-9/16"
Cutout Diameter: 14-1/16"
Mounting Depth: 8-3/8"
Hey AudioFerret, interesting.
Too many choices !
Peace,
Fish
Hey LightWaveDude, when you say > I would strongly suggest using just the sub you build and forgetting about the 12" that comes with the HTIB. It creates just another problem for crossing over smoothly, and it probably will produce more noise than anything. < I hear what your saying... and "IF" I had serious issues because of this, I guess I might have to leave out the powered 12 incher.... But "with it", I would be able to use the system "as is" (without my super-sub set up) during those times when I wasn't actually trying to shake the house down... you know, early in the morning, after a long day, for the local news, etc.
Hey Bjorno, thank you for showing me those Mach's...... The price is certainly right. Can you, or anybody here please compare these specs, and tell me how this would help / hurt my idea for lots of 40Hz and down bass >
This is for the Mach5, 18" sub (and heck, at $72 each, I could afford 4 of them !)
T/S Parameters - MJ-18 - 8 / 4 Ohms
Fs = 30.4 / 28 Hz
Re = 7.2 / 3.2 Ohms
Qes = 0.39 / 0.34
Qms = 3.41 / 4.99
Qts = 0.35 / 0.31
Mms = 219 / 229 grams
Rms = 12.3 / 8.1 kg/s
Cms = 0.100 / 0.14 mm/N
VAS = 243.8 / 208.4 litres
Sd = 1029.2 cm2
Xmax = 12 mm
Cone Diameter = 36.20 cm
Recommended Box Sizes:
Sealed: 80 litres (2.8 cu. ft.)
Ported: 128 litres (4.5 cu. ft.) 30Hz tuning
EBS: 250 litres (8.8 cu. ft.) 18Hz tuning
And this is for the Dayton Titanic 15"
TITI400C-4 15" Titanic MKIII Specifications
Power handling: 800 watts RMS/1,100 watts max
VCdia: 2-1/2"
Le: 3.84 mH
Impedance: 4 ohms
Re: 3.68 ohms
Frequency range: 19-500 Hz
Magnet weight: 136oz.
Fs: 19.93 Hz
SPL: 91.7 dB 2.83V/1m
Vas: 7.79 cu. ft.
Qms: 5.89
Qes: .41
Qts: .38
Xmax: 20.5 mm
Dimensions:
Overall Diameter: 15-9/16"
Cutout Diameter: 14-1/16"
Mounting Depth: 8-3/8"
Hey AudioFerret, interesting.
Too many choices !
Peace,
Fish
Hey pjanda1.....
You said > Also, price the wood. With such large panels, I would strongly suggest high grade ply (Marine or Baltic Birch, for ridgidity and weight savings, hf resonances won't matter much in a sub) The absolute cheapest passable stuff I could find set me back $250. <
Do you have a problem with MDF ? I mean, yes, it's heavy, but a lot of speaker builders consider this extra weight a plus ! And it's cheap. Remember, some guys put concrete in the bottom of there enclosures, right ?
I once built a simple tuned port encloser for an 18" that was 1 cu yard ! Yes.... 27 cu feet ! I used 1" MDF. I think it weighed right at 200 lbs.... But I personally outweighed that 'light weight' little thing by 60 lbs ....plus, I have a dolly.
Anyway, I will look into enormous transmission lines or even back loaded horns.
Oh, and you said > I have BLH/TL mains (known as the BIB's), and they are about 250 liters each <...... Pretty tiny, but hey, if they do the job
Thank you for your thoughts,
Peace,
Fish
You said > Also, price the wood. With such large panels, I would strongly suggest high grade ply (Marine or Baltic Birch, for ridgidity and weight savings, hf resonances won't matter much in a sub) The absolute cheapest passable stuff I could find set me back $250. <
Do you have a problem with MDF ? I mean, yes, it's heavy, but a lot of speaker builders consider this extra weight a plus ! And it's cheap. Remember, some guys put concrete in the bottom of there enclosures, right ?
I once built a simple tuned port encloser for an 18" that was 1 cu yard ! Yes.... 27 cu feet ! I used 1" MDF. I think it weighed right at 200 lbs.... But I personally outweighed that 'light weight' little thing by 60 lbs
....plus, I have a dolly.Anyway, I will look into enormous transmission lines or even back loaded horns.
Oh, and you said > I have BLH/TL mains (known as the BIB's), and they are about 250 liters each <...... Pretty tiny, but hey, if they do the job
Thank you for your thoughts,
Peace,
Fish
What kind of output are you hoping for in the 16-20hz region and what size room??
Honestly if you ask me(someone who has built may infra-type subs) it's only really useful to impress your friends with a sine wave. In any music that exists there just isnt content that low(spare maybe the 1812 overture and a few pipe organ songs...) and while some speak of these things in movies I have never seen my PRs move during any movies(16hz tuning).
If you want something impressive 20hz is the lowest I'd say you NEED to go... 25hz is an acceptable cutoff in my opinion...
But if you want to go overkill I'll give this warning... Its nice, it just isnt really worth the extra money spent
With that said... excursion is still a very nice thing... 14mm+ one way on a 15" speaker should be quite adequate assuming 2 speakers and tuning at or above 20hz.
If you're only planning to use the sub up to 40hz then your driver selection wont be as critical except in the following parameters.... Vas, Fs, Xmax, Powerhandling, Sensitivity
Vas will need to reasonably match your enclosure size... but for this instance I think any size Vas should be fine, but a higher one will likely result in higher efficiency and should work fine in an enclosure size you are willing to build...
Fs needs to be low if you want to go low without Eq or lots of it
linear Xmax of course needs to be high to minimize chances of bottoming out and to lower distortion products
Powerhandling and sensitivity go hand and hand...
Now I have one of the dayton 1000watt class G sub amps, but I have yet to actually hook it up and try it out yet! The price was definately good enough for me at ~$340 on special(normally ~$400 IIRC). I also have an adire ADA1200 which performs quite well powering my 15" tumult(original version). Even down to 16hz(well I've played 10hz sines through it, but I'm doubtful that I had more than a hundred or so watts going through it since the enclosure is tuned at 16hz and I didnt feel like tearing the sub apart).
The ADA was expensive though and I've had a few problems with it blowing fuses.... asside from that it's a good amp
Honestly if you ask me(someone who has built may infra-type subs) it's only really useful to impress your friends with a sine wave. In any music that exists there just isnt content that low(spare maybe the 1812 overture and a few pipe organ songs...) and while some speak of these things in movies I have never seen my PRs move during any movies(16hz tuning).
If you want something impressive 20hz is the lowest I'd say you NEED to go... 25hz is an acceptable cutoff in my opinion...
But if you want to go overkill I'll give this warning... Its nice, it just isnt really worth the extra money spent
With that said... excursion is still a very nice thing... 14mm+ one way on a 15" speaker should be quite adequate assuming 2 speakers and tuning at or above 20hz.
If you're only planning to use the sub up to 40hz then your driver selection wont be as critical except in the following parameters.... Vas, Fs, Xmax, Powerhandling, Sensitivity
Vas will need to reasonably match your enclosure size... but for this instance I think any size Vas should be fine, but a higher one will likely result in higher efficiency and should work fine in an enclosure size you are willing to build...
Fs needs to be low if you want to go low without Eq or lots of it
linear Xmax of course needs to be high to minimize chances of bottoming out and to lower distortion products
Powerhandling and sensitivity go hand and hand...
Now I have one of the dayton 1000watt class G sub amps, but I have yet to actually hook it up and try it out yet! The price was definately good enough for me at ~$340 on special(normally ~$400 IIRC). I also have an adire ADA1200 which performs quite well powering my 15" tumult(original version). Even down to 16hz(well I've played 10hz sines through it, but I'm doubtful that I had more than a hundred or so watts going through it since the enclosure is tuned at 16hz and I didnt feel like tearing the sub apart).
The ADA was expensive though and I've had a few problems with it blowing fuses.... asside from that it's a good amp
Re: Couple more things....
Sounds like a good idea to me; I even had the same plan at one time, but you know what? I was way too addicted (and spoiled) by having the infrasonics in everything I listen to, I've just learned to set the sub gain lower when I need it to be quiet (though that rarely happens)
If you decide to keep it in the system, I would strongly suggest putting in some type of selector or just switching RCA cables for each sub. I still would recommend against using both subs at once.
I haven't heard either the Titanic or the MJ-18, however, theoretically the MJ-18 should offer more output if you have the room to spare for the large enclosures need. Especially when you factor in that you can buy three MJ-18's for the same price as one Titanic, I'd definitely look into them. The only thing I would be leery of is that the Titanic is a long standing driver that has many user comments while the MJ-18 is still fairly new.
However, if the build quality is anything like the MAW-15 they offer, I would seriously look into it. A man ran 1200 watts to one coil of the driver for 2 hours and it help up fine (videos can be found in this thread: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8608)
Fish Chris said:
Sounds like a good idea to me; I even had the same plan at one time, but you know what? I was way too addicted (and spoiled) by having the infrasonics in everything I listen to, I've just learned to set the sub gain lower when I need it to be quiet (though that rarely happens
)If you decide to keep it in the system, I would strongly suggest putting in some type of selector or just switching RCA cables for each sub. I still would recommend against using both subs at once.
I haven't heard either the Titanic or the MJ-18, however, theoretically the MJ-18 should offer more output if you have the room to spare for the large enclosures need. Especially when you factor in that you can buy three MJ-18's for the same price as one Titanic, I'd definitely look into them. The only thing I would be leery of is that the Titanic is a long standing driver that has many user comments while the MJ-18 is still fairly new.
However, if the build quality is anything like the MAW-15 they offer, I would seriously look into it. A man ran 1200 watts to one coil of the driver for 2 hours and it help up fine (videos can be found in this thread: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8608)
BassAwdyO said:
BassAwdyO posted while I was typing my message, I agree with this statement in that that is all the lower you need usable output, however I would recommend tuning a tad lower to push group delay below you're intended frequency range. Pushing tuning into the teens keeps the driver as the main contributor of output in the musical range so that transient response stays reasonable, but you still have the output down low if needed.
Re: Hey pjanda1.....
To the best of my knowledge, you need 1.25" thick MDF to equal the stiffness of .75" decent ply. You're probably not going to build a huge enclosure 1.25" thick, so you'll need much more bracing with the MDF. Either way, if you're looking at a really big cabinet, you're looking at a really big difference in weight. More bracing also complicates the construction.
MDF is better internally damped in the mids and highs, but that doesn't matter here. My understanding is that the primary resonance is stronger with MDF. Think about it: a heavier panel that is less stiff.
Look around for more info about Transmission Lines. They have all sorts of advantages. The main disadvantage is size, especially with large drivers and low tuning. It sounds like you are looking for big, so why not build the best?
pj
Fish Chris said:
To the best of my knowledge, you need 1.25" thick MDF to equal the stiffness of .75" decent ply. You're probably not going to build a huge enclosure 1.25" thick, so you'll need much more bracing with the MDF. Either way, if you're looking at a really big cabinet, you're looking at a really big difference in weight. More bracing also complicates the construction.
MDF is better internally damped in the mids and highs, but that doesn't matter here. My understanding is that the primary resonance is stronger with MDF. Think about it: a heavier panel that is less stiff.
Look around for more info about Transmission Lines. They have all sorts of advantages. The main disadvantage is size, especially with large drivers and low tuning. It sounds like you are looking for big, so why not build the best?
pj
Hey, if low if what you want then the MJ-18 from Mach 5 Audio is not the way to go, I am also just a freshman myself so I have to be pocket friendly and I myself am also planning on using 4 of the MJ-18's but they will be more for SPL and I have simulated and simulated over and over again and I concluded that they will shine any lower than @ 30 Hz, I plan on putting each sub in an 8ft^3 enclosure @34 Hz in each corner of my room each sub taking 600 watt rms. And I have seen the Titanic in action and i have wanted one ever since but i can afford to do what i want with it just yet, but anyways the Titanic is what I'd go with if your looking for low response. I ran a simulation with 4 of The MJ-18's in a 16ft^3 @ 34Hz against the Titanic and of course 4 18's will blow almost any 15" away, It depends on what you want and i assume that is a real nice low clean rumble and if you want that I'd go with the Titanic, and if your willing to spoon out a tad bit more I'd get 2 Titanic's and instead of that $400 amp your looking at I'd check out that Europower 2500 which i have found as low as $250 on ebay and at the warehouses and then depending on what you use for the cabinet W/ shipping you will have a wall shaking system for under $700, I am already ahead on budget building so i know what I'm talking about but seeming that you want a TTL sub I thnk that you should check out some of the horn loading enclosures, of course I'd love to put the Titanic in a horn but horns do best with low Xmax drivers and the MJ-18 would fit the cut fine but i dont know if it's been used like that before. Would be interesting to see how it performs in a horn. Anyways you want low response so the Titanic is what I'd go with but I myself prefer bang for the buck and I'm taking the 4 MJ-18's up but if you want it to be strong from 40Hz to 16 Hz the Titanic will be your new best friend if it is set up right.
PS: The Europower 2500 pumps out 2400 watts rms bridged @ 4 ohms and its cheaper so you should not have any problems with power if you choose to go with the europower like i have
PS: The Europower 2500 pumps out 2400 watts rms bridged @ 4 ohms and its cheaper so you should not have any problems with power if you choose to go with the europower like i have
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