have enclosure, need driver recommendations

talis · 1st January 2007, 10:25 AM

Howdy. I'm new here, but I've been following several of the diy speaker/sub boards off and on for a few years now.
Anyway, I'm looking for opinions/advice on what to do for a sub for my living room (50/50 on music/movies). I have an old footlocker that I'm planning on building the sub in (roughly 135L of space after taking enclosure, bracing, single 12" driver, and amp into account). I also have an old Shiva driver (first iterration of it I think) that I can use, but don't have to. I'm looking to build something to work well for pipe organ music played loudly.

I've looked at using the shiva alone sealed or ported, dual 12's, sealed or ported, the shiva and a PR, even trip 10's. Those are about the limits of my useful knowledge on subs as far as designing goes (still new to all this). I know about other setups, but I'd prefer to keep it some what simple, but I'm open. The most promising setup I've been able to come up with (using WinISD) is the shiva and a 4x12" port, but I don't know too much about ported setups, I've only built sealed in the past.

The living room is about 20'x20'. I'd rather not spend more than about $300 on drivers/PRs if I can. Hope I've covered most of the normal questions. TIA for any help!

RobWells · 1st January 2007, 12:44 PM

Biggest problem you have there is the enclosure size. A ported alignment ~generally~ needs a bigger box. If you want multiple drivers (and your room is big enough to need them imo) then your enclosure will need to be bigger.

You will find the price of PR's will most likley put that option out of your budget, leaving sealed or ported the only options.

Maybe buy another 3 shivas and load them isobarik, tuned to ~15Hz. Not my bag, but probably what I'd do with that size enclosure / room.

I'm sure other people will have good alternatives though.

Cheers,

Rob.

The shivas are $99 + $12 shipping here btw:

http://www.creativesound.ca/details....hiva%20Classic

tinitus · 1st January 2007, 02:16 PM

DAYTON 15" Titanic seem to work fine in 100 liter closed, -6db/25hz

130 liter BR should be possible, -3db/25hz

But I reckon you have EQ on your plateamp

Organ music at very loud levels ? .... I guess I would limit the very lowest frequency

Mind you, I am no expert at all

BTW... you havent mentioned anything about efficiency of you main speakers

talis · 1st January 2007, 06:29 PM

Thanks for the info so far. RobWells, enclosure size was the problem I kept running into with WinISD, it kept saying I'd need a larger box too. I don't have to use the foot locker, but I'd really like to as it looks good in the room.

As far as 2 isobarik pairs, I'm sure it's just that I don't know what I'm doing with those in WinISD, but I keep coming up with curves that roll off sooner (-3dB at ~40hz for the sealed) than a single shiva ported (-3 at ~22hz). A twin isobarik in a ported box tuned to the same freq (22hz ends up with the same curve as the single shiva in a ported box. What am I doing wrong here?

Tinitus, no my amp does not have EQ on it, but I might get a newer amp. I mentioned the organ music because that's what usually gets played at the loudest levels (not loud enough to annoy the neighbors in the houses next door, but loud enough that it gets heard outside the house).

RobWells · 1st January 2007, 06:59 PM

The isobarik I suggested may start to roll off higher, but it also gives you extension way below the single shiva/22Hz you're modelling it against (needed to reproduce organ stuff at loud volumes). It also has the flatter response. Trading a few dB in the easy to reproduce frequencies to give higher efficiency in the hard ones (~15 - 20Hz) seems a good trade off to me.

A lot of people think that a low Q sealed box (Q=0.51) works well with room gain to give a deep, flat response. An EBS type vented sub will have a similar reponse to a low Q sealed, but slightly more output in the teens.

Model both boxes at once and compare the max spl of each box. Theres a big difference in available spl, and in your room you'll need all the help you can get.

fwiw I used to use 3 sealed 15" subs in a room half the size of yours, and that was about right. (for me). 3 tempests, ~220L per cab.

Cheers,

Rob

tinitus · 1st January 2007, 11:01 PM

Just found the old Shiva mk1 on the new Adire site, and it seems there is little difference between the Shivas

100 liter closed gives me -6db/30hz

130 liter BR, -3db/25hz, port 10 x 26 cm

should be ok I think, as good as any, and I have heard speakers play nice organ music without getting that low

talis · 2nd January 2007, 03:08 AM

Yeah, I figure I can start off with the shiva in a vented box, which I can alter easy enough to add more drivers, switch drivers, etc. But I'm still open to suggestions. Thanks for the help so far.

1st January 2007, 10:25 AM	#1
talis diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2006	have enclosure, need driver recommendations Howdy. I'm new here, but I've been following several of the diy speaker/sub boards off and on for a few years now. Anyway, I'm looking for opinions/advice on what to do for a sub for my living room (50/50 on music/movies). I have an old footlocker that I'm planning on building the sub in (roughly 135L of space after taking enclosure, bracing, single 12" driver, and amp into account). I also have an old Shiva driver (first iterration of it I think) that I can use, but don't have to. I'm looking to build something to work well for pipe organ music played loudly. I've looked at using the shiva alone sealed or ported, dual 12's, sealed or ported, the shiva and a PR, even trip 10's. Those are about the limits of my useful knowledge on subs as far as designing goes (still new to all this). I know about other setups, but I'd prefer to keep it some what simple, but I'm open. The most promising setup I've been able to come up with (using WinISD) is the shiva and a 4x12" port, but I don't know too much about ported setups, I've only built sealed in the past. The living room is about 20'x20'. I'd rather not spend more than about $300 on drivers/PRs if I can. Hope I've covered most of the normal questions. TIA for any help!

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1st January 2007, 12:44 PM	#2
RobWells diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: UK	Biggest problem you have there is the enclosure size. A ported alignment ~generally~ needs a bigger box. If you want multiple drivers (and your room is big enough to need them imo) then your enclosure will need to be bigger. You will find the price of PR's will most likley put that option out of your budget, leaving sealed or ported the only options. Maybe buy another 3 shivas and load them isobarik, tuned to ~15Hz. Not my bag, but probably what I'd do with that size enclosure / room. I'm sure other people will have good alternatives though. Cheers, Rob. The shivas are $99 + $12 shipping here btw: http://www.creativesound.ca/details....hiva%20Classic

1st January 2007, 02:16 PM	#3
tinitus diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005	DAYTON 15" Titanic seem to work fine in 100 liter closed, -6db/25hz 130 liter BR should be possible, -3db/25hz But I reckon you have EQ on your plateamp Organ music at very loud levels ? .... I guess I would limit the very lowest frequency Mind you, I am no expert at all BTW... you havent mentioned anything about efficiency of you main speakers

1st January 2007, 06:29 PM	#4
talis diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2006	Thanks for the info so far. RobWells, enclosure size was the problem I kept running into with WinISD, it kept saying I'd need a larger box too. I don't have to use the foot locker, but I'd really like to as it looks good in the room. As far as 2 isobarik pairs, I'm sure it's just that I don't know what I'm doing with those in WinISD, but I keep coming up with curves that roll off sooner (-3dB at ~40hz for the sealed) than a single shiva ported (-3 at ~22hz). A twin isobarik in a ported box tuned to the same freq (22hz ends up with the same curve as the single shiva in a ported box. What am I doing wrong here? Tinitus, no my amp does not have EQ on it, but I might get a newer amp. I mentioned the organ music because that's what usually gets played at the loudest levels (not loud enough to annoy the neighbors in the houses next door, but loud enough that it gets heard outside the house).

1st January 2007, 06:59 PM	#5
RobWells diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: UK	The isobarik I suggested may start to roll off higher, but it also gives you extension way below the single shiva/22Hz you're modelling it against (needed to reproduce organ stuff at loud volumes). It also has the flatter response. Trading a few dB in the easy to reproduce frequencies to give higher efficiency in the hard ones (~15 - 20Hz) seems a good trade off to me. A lot of people think that a low Q sealed box (Q=0.51) works well with room gain to give a deep, flat response. An EBS type vented sub will have a similar reponse to a low Q sealed, but slightly more output in the teens. Model both boxes at once and compare the max spl of each box. Theres a big difference in available spl, and in your room you'll need all the help you can get. fwiw I used to use 3 sealed 15" subs in a room half the size of yours, and that was about right. (for me). 3 tempests, ~220L per cab. Cheers, Rob

1st January 2007, 11:01 PM	#6
tinitus diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005	Just found the old Shiva mk1 on the new Adire site, and it seems there is little difference between the Shivas 100 liter closed gives me -6db/30hz 130 liter BR, -3db/25hz, port 10 x 26 cm should be ok I think, as good as any, and I have heard speakers play nice organ music without getting that low

2nd January 2007, 03:08 AM	#7
talis diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2006	Yeah, I figure I can start off with the shiva in a vented box, which I can alter easy enough to add more drivers, switch drivers, etc. But I'm still open to suggestions. Thanks for the help so far.