I hate to break it to you, but for this application you need some real low-bass muscle in this venue, though not necessarily "sub-bass" as you think of it for home theater applications. It wouldn't be a good idea to use the HE15, because even though it's a beast of a subwoofer, it's very inefficient. You don't need to get very low, only flat to about 40-50 Hz. Pro sound 18" woofers are what you need here. Perhaps what's needed is a pair of Eminence Omega Pro 18" woofers, one in each box, one on each side of the stage. Do yourself and your church a favor and don't settle for a half-baked solution. A pair of Community TD215S dual-15" subwoofers would be an example of a good option for filling the space. They are more efficient, and sound pretty good as small pro subwoofers go.
Yes I would also agree with BAM... pro 18" subs are the way to go!
If you want to keep it on a budget....
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-085
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-444
I own four of the hammer subs and I'd reccomend them for the price... the dayton has nearly the same parameters, just a little more excursion perhaps and a lower Fs.
If you want to keep it on a budget....
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-085
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-444
I own four of the hammer subs and I'd reccomend them for the price... the dayton has nearly the same parameters, just a little more excursion perhaps and a lower Fs.
HE-15 parameters can be found here:
http://www.wmeckle.com/GREG/Greg.htm
Not listed is the inductance, which IIRC is quite high, something like 4-7 mH. Most simulators don't factor in inductance, so the predictions from most software are actually incorrect when inductance gets high. High inductance will cause a bump in response.
My first thought is to put it in a ~100 liter box tuned in the ~25Hz range, and make sure you cut frequencies below 20Hz sharply. That is based on the given parameters and not factoring in VC inductance. If I were "really" designing something for this woofer I would measure carefully and simulate from there.
http://www.wmeckle.com/GREG/Greg.htm
Not listed is the inductance, which IIRC is quite high, something like 4-7 mH. Most simulators don't factor in inductance, so the predictions from most software are actually incorrect when inductance gets high. High inductance will cause a bump in response.
My first thought is to put it in a ~100 liter box tuned in the ~25Hz range, and make sure you cut frequencies below 20Hz sharply. That is based on the given parameters and not factoring in VC inductance. If I were "really" designing something for this woofer I would measure carefully and simulate from there.
Hi masterp2. Regardless of what driver you decide to use, it may be worth a visit to the JBLPro site. There is a lot of information there regarding your application.
What is happening about the rest of the spectrum? The sub needs to match that.
Just getting down to the lower bass strings at realistic levels in that venue will take a bit of oomph, and some.
Also, the HE15 you refer to, is that the 15 sub intended for HT use? (AE?)
The model no is used by several. Carver for one. (Bass Guitar)
You need to ask yourself how important is it to go lower for sound effects. That's really going to take some ooomph.
I would enjoy the project if some one else was financing it!
What is happening about the rest of the spectrum? The sub needs to match that.
Just getting down to the lower bass strings at realistic levels in that venue will take a bit of oomph, and some.
Also, the HE15 you refer to, is that the 15 sub intended for HT use? (AE?)
The model no is used by several. Carver for one. (Bass Guitar)
You need to ask yourself how important is it to go lower for sound effects. That's really going to take some ooomph.
I would enjoy the project if some one else was financing it!
The HE-15 is the TC sounds driver from a few years ago, one of those ultra excursion drivers, yes originally produced as an effects driver. Common uses are HT, ported and PR applications.
My objective to to produce some 100 dB bass down to 30 HZ, again for strings mostly, some keyboard, maybe even some drum mics. I want a portable solution.
There is an existing sub, located up on the cieling between 2 mains. Not familiar with the drivers, but I am getting up to speed on the processing, centrally processed using Shure P4800. I have no idea why a professional install would put a sub up on a 25 ft cieling, seems like a bad idea. In any event, bass is pretty pathetic, muddy, undefined.
My objective to to produce some 100 dB bass down to 30 HZ, again for strings mostly, some keyboard, maybe even some drum mics. I want a portable solution.
There is an existing sub, located up on the cieling between 2 mains. Not familiar with the drivers, but I am getting up to speed on the processing, centrally processed using Shure P4800. I have no idea why a professional install would put a sub up on a 25 ft cieling, seems like a bad idea. In any event, bass is pretty pathetic, muddy, undefined.
What about the Mach5 18" sub? They're only $60 and can be put in a relatively small cabinet for portability:
http://www.mach5audio.com/product_info.php?products_id=38&osCsid=6df3a3d6fe89dda380326a50721576b9
http://www.mach5audio.com/product_info.php?products_id=38&osCsid=6df3a3d6fe89dda380326a50721576b9
jackinnj said:
man placement is one of the keys here I have a fairly large room and I faced my 12 inch sub towards me and it sounds like 1 6x9 going off it was crap so I placed it into the corner and it can knock over aa batteries and at half level it over rides the tv that’s up full to me in the church it maybe the same situation but I maybe wrong.
its just a suggestion
"I have no idea why a professional install would put a sub up on a 25 ft ceiling, seems like a bad idea. In any event, bass is pretty pathetic, muddy, undefined. Michael"
__________________
I am an expert in the design of state-of-the-art auditorium acoustics and sound systems for churches, and the founder of Worship Space (www.worshipspace.org), a nation-wide organization whose members consist of architects, independent acoustic, lighting and technical-systems design consultants, and media contractors for worship space systems. My profile is at http://www.worshipspace.org/people/founder/.
While Lft./Rt. subs are handy for one-off shows (& common in clubs), and sound fine up close, they cause comb filtering of the system LF polar response (uneven coverage) resulting in a big bump down the center of the room and "muddy" (reverberant) bass just off center. The polar response improves off center, but impact diminishes with distance as the listener moves from the direct field to the reverberant field.
Mounting a bass box on a hard ceiling (under 30 ft.) is not a bad solution for PA installs (and is common). This bass box location maintains time alignment and provides uniform coverage due to a smooth polar response and more uniform distance to all the listeners. Maybe more important to most churches, it reduces clutter on the platform.
I try to specify 3-4 sub-woofers into my projects, 2 on a hard ceiling (best time alignment and uniform coverage) and 2 under the stage to thump people down near the stage. This vertical spacing also makes the total sub-woofer array more directional (like a dipole), allowing it to project further into a large reverberant space (so it sounds more intimate and punchy).
Your center bass box is not likely a true sub-woofer, but more likely a hi-SPL bass box with a F3 of 40-50 Hz. If you want to improve the "muddy" (reverberant) bass you will need to lower the LF reverberation acoustically with bass traps (your organist will not like that) or install a directional (gradient/cardioid) sub-woofer (or large array).
__________________
I am an expert in the design of state-of-the-art auditorium acoustics and sound systems for churches, and the founder of Worship Space (www.worshipspace.org), a nation-wide organization whose members consist of architects, independent acoustic, lighting and technical-systems design consultants, and media contractors for worship space systems. My profile is at http://www.worshipspace.org/people/founder/.
While Lft./Rt. subs are handy for one-off shows (& common in clubs), and sound fine up close, they cause comb filtering of the system LF polar response (uneven coverage) resulting in a big bump down the center of the room and "muddy" (reverberant) bass just off center. The polar response improves off center, but impact diminishes with distance as the listener moves from the direct field to the reverberant field.
Mounting a bass box on a hard ceiling (under 30 ft.) is not a bad solution for PA installs (and is common). This bass box location maintains time alignment and provides uniform coverage due to a smooth polar response and more uniform distance to all the listeners. Maybe more important to most churches, it reduces clutter on the platform.
I try to specify 3-4 sub-woofers into my projects, 2 on a hard ceiling (best time alignment and uniform coverage) and 2 under the stage to thump people down near the stage. This vertical spacing also makes the total sub-woofer array more directional (like a dipole), allowing it to project further into a large reverberant space (so it sounds more intimate and punchy).
Your center bass box is not likely a true sub-woofer, but more likely a hi-SPL bass box with a F3 of 40-50 Hz. If you want to improve the "muddy" (reverberant) bass you will need to lower the LF reverberation acoustically with bass traps (your organist will not like that) or install a directional (gradient/cardioid) sub-woofer (or large array).
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