Another which subwoofer question...

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RockysDad

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Joined 2003
Newbie here... I'm interested in a sub to go with my Fostex 167 ML-TL speakers. All I want is to fill in the bottom end. My requirement are that I want a sound that is solid, well defined and fast. Also that its not too big and with a price of ~$200. Doesn't have to go loud and too deep ~25-30Hz. I want to hear clarity of the notes on a standup string bass. Most of my music is jazz and acoustic pop mixed with a few vintage rock songs.

I want to build only one now but but might think about adding a second one in the future to go with some smaller fullrangers, ie FE 108. Crossed over around 70Hz or so for now.

Can I get away with 10" and a 200W amp? Sealed or ported and which drivers would you suggest for my application?

TIA...
 
Lothar34

Lothar34

Member
Joined 2006
10" and 200W should be just fine. I'd go sealed.

If you don't mind a big box, one like this would be great in 3.5cuft:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-434

Or this one in about 1cuft:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-460

Morel has a couple options too if you don't mind increasing your budget a little, and Dayton also has a couple cheaper options than those two.

I didn't check Madisound, but I'm sure there are suitable options there too.
 
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RockysDad

Member
Joined 2003
Thanks, but let me ask this in a different way. With my requirements about the type of sound I'm looking for what should I be looking for in a subwoof driver and the cabinet itself? As stated earlier I want something fast with a lot of definition. Which cabinet type should I choose and what type of specs should I look for in a driver.

PS. I'm starting my search but still need some direction in which way to go. Too many options out there...
 
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RockysDad

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Joined 2003
Lothar34 said:
Sealed enclosure.

Driver with a strong motor and lightweight cone. I think that first one would be perfect.
Click to expand...

I've been searching around and found out that a seal cabinet is what would work best for me. But 3.5ft^3 is a bit big. Is there something smaller that would work in a sealed cabinet?

What parameters in that speaker tells you that the motor is strong and the cone is lightweight? Maybe there are others that would work in a smaller cabinet.

Would something like the PE 10" Titanic work in my case? I've never heard one before but read that its pretty good. I could probably get that driver and plate amp then build my own cabinet.

Going sealed, now looking for a driver to fit in a smaller chassis...
 
Lothar34

Lothar34

Member
Joined 2006
RockysDad said:


I've been searching around and found out that a seal cabinet is what would work best for me. But 3.5ft^3 is a bit big. Is there something smaller that would work in a sealed cabinet?

What parameters in that speaker tells you that the motor is strong and the cone is lightweight? Maybe there are others that would work in a smaller cabinet.

Would something like the PE 10" Titanic work in my case? I've never heard one before but read that its pretty good. I could probably get that driver and plate amp then build my own cabinet.

Going sealed, now looking for a driver to fit in a smaller chassis...
Click to expand...

3.5cuft is big. You can make it around 2.5cuft if you put a good amount of fill in there.

Most places won't actually list the weight of the cone, but that one is a carbon fiber and it says in the description that it's lightweight.

That Peerless is a good sub, but I don't think they intended it for sealed enclosures. You'd need .19 cubic feet for a Qtc of .707, and that's terribly small.
 
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RockysDad

Member
Joined 2003
Lets talk numbers...

Specifications: *Power handling: 350 watts RMS/600 watts max *VCdia: 2-1/2" *Le: .95 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.3 ohms *Frequency range: 22 - 1,000 Hz *Fs: 22 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 2.83 V/1m *Vas: 2.12 cu. ft. *Qms: 2.80 *Qes: .45 *Qts: .39 *Xmax: 14mm *Dimensions: A: 10-1/2", B: 9-1/4", C: 5".

Here are the specs for the Dayton 10" RSS265HF. When I ran this driver through a sealed sub calculator, the recommended enclosure came out to be 1.5ft^3. The Qtc was set to .707. This would drop a bit if the enclosure went a little larger.

This driver seems that it would fit my needs but what spec would tell me it has a strong motor and would be quick? Qts is mentioned by Cro maniac but which way is better, more or less? What does this spec mean anyway and why? What about all the rest? What do they mean and why are they important?

Much to learn...
 
Lothar34

Lothar34

Member
Joined 2006
http://hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10678

BL------Expressed in Tesla meters, this is a measurement of the motor strength of a speaker. Think of this as how good a weightlifter the
transducer is. A measured mass is applied to the cone forcing it back while the current required for the motor to force the mass back is measured. The formula is mass in grams divided by the current in amperes. A high BL figure indicates a very strong transducer that moves the cone
with authority!
Click to expand...
Q Parameters---------Qms, Qes, and Qts are measurements related to the control of a transducer's suspension when it reaches the resonant
frequency (Fs). The suspension must prevent any lateral motion that might allow the voice coil and pole to touch (this would destroy the
loudspeaker). The suspension must also act like a shock absorber. Qms is a measurement of the control coming from the speaker's mechanical suspension system (the surround and spider). View these components like springs. Qes is a measurement of the control coming from the speaker's electrical suspension system (the voice coil and magnet). Opposing forces from the mechanical and electrical suspensions act to absorb shock. Qts is called the 'Total Q' of the driver and is derived from an equation where Qes is multiplied by Qms and the result is divided by the sum of the same.

As a general guideline, Qts of 0.4 or below indicates a transducer well suited to a vented enclosure. Qts between 0.4 and 0.7 indicates
suitability for a sealed enclosure. Qts of 0.7 or above indicates suitability for free-air or infinite baffle applications. However, there
are exceptions!
Click to expand...

You won't often find the weight of the cone assembly listed with the driver's specs. I'm pretty sure paper is the heaviest though.
 
claudio

claudio

Member
Joined 2002
claudionegro.com
To check if a driver is suited for a sealed enclosure, Small suggests the EBP (efficiency bandwidth product). EPB=Fs/Qes; values <50 (around) suggest a closed enclosure.
A driver suited for a closed enclosure has a low Fs, pretty high cone mass (Mms), and a long voice coil (high Xmax), a Qts>0.3, and a good motor (high BxL).

Regards,
Claudio
 
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RockysDad

Member
Joined 2003
This Dayton 10" RSS265HF driver seem to be the one that would fit my needs. For the amp, there is a 250W amp that Rhythmic Audio is selling that is on sale right now.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/nonservo_product.htm

They also suggest to get the LT board to go with the amp for only $15 more. This sound like a deal. All this into about a sealed 15" cube would hopefully work for me. Sounds like a plan... :D

Anyone care comment my choices to see if this would work?
 
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