Some help building a PA please? W-Bins??

[SmokeyJoe]

I'm a DJ and i do a lot of outdoor events, so after much research i've decided to build a modest Full-Range horn loaded PA.

So, i'm going to build 2x Mid/Top cabs and 2x Subs (W-Bins). My question here for you guys is will that set-up be okay, my Grandad is more than capable of building the cabs but he doesnt know anything about all the T/S and all that, and to be perfectly honest neither do i. But i've found these plans and put them on here for you to give me some feedback (please).

http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/w...ction.asp.html
(Yeah, the plans are dutch...but the front elevation and plan view are there with all the measurements)

So for the subs then i've chosen the W-Bin design, and from what i've figured so far - its an old design? In any case would two of these loaded with Eminence Beta 15"s do? @ 8OHMS each my Hill DX1500 will power em' good! I'm using a Behringer Super-X Pro CX2310 crossover to split the signal at 250Hz for the subs and i need them ideally to go all the way down to 40~45Hz. Here's a link to my drivers with all the T/S:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...ivers&doy=18m8

Please help me out, i'm just starting out and need all the help i can get

Thanks, Joe.

[sreten]

Hi,

I'll just caution that W-bins are designed to be used in multiples,
the bass performance of one a side is likely to be very dissapointing.

So your going for a "full range horn loaded" P.A., erm... why ?

Next question : Short, Medium or Long throw ?

If you don't understand the question, you need to do more research.

/sreten.

[phase_accurate]

The expression W-bin is used for both - a class of single-folded cabs like the one you posted - but also for a specific model which is significantly larger than the whimpy one that you posted.
There were designs with 1x18" or 2x15" (the 18" being the original AFAIK). It was a hybrid design using a single-folded horn like you posted and some reflex loading below.

Regards

Charles

[mike.e]

SmokeyJoe

This is mainly a home audio forum

: Go to speakerplans.com /forum. The guys there will gladly help.

There are a variety of well tried designs there for you to make.

If your doing indoor gigs id probably just go ~5cubic ft ported boxes for 15"s or 18"s.

Tops will depend on many things!

[SmokeyJoe]

Hmmm, Okay. I had looked on SpeakerPlans and i couldent find a Sub design i liked. They have to be single 15" and be able to cover the entire bass frequencys on their own.

I'm going with Horn Loaded cabnets due to their efficiency compared to conventional vented or closed box enclosures. I am looking for long-bass (and i was led to believe that W-Bins are long throw deigns) and the Mid/Top are already built for medium/long throw. I have done a fair bit of research actually. Everyone's a beginner at first, sreten.

So what are your reccomendations as far as the subs are concerned? I've gotta use the Eminence Beta 15's because i'm salvaging them from a pair of AC Euro shitters. The drivers themselves are good, its just a 15" Driver covering frequencys from 35-1000Hz causes inter-modulation distortion and is a bad design imho.

I need two subs. Will the W Bin design i've got work for me if i port it? The Beta 15's resonance is 35Hz whiich is quite low.

I've only got a small car to transport the speakers, hence the small cabnet design i attached in my previous post.

Thanks. Joe.

[mike.e]

How much excursion does the Beta 15" have?You need SOME even on a horn.If you want ONE sub per side, DONT build the Wbin.
Super cheap drivers,especially MID type of drivers dont have the excursion required for deep bass.

Ok so bass reflex a Kappa pro or similar ,per side. There must be a bass reflex design around for one.



Then consider mid. If you go hornloaded mid youl have to have a horn cutoff of near 150hz if you go for a Mt122 type of thing,otherwise the cabinet gets prohibatively deep.

Theres nothing inherently wrong with a 2way system + sub eg large direct radiator + horn, and a sub for <100hz.

I still reccomend you to go to speakerplans forum.

http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/fo...?TID=2503&PN=1

?

[sreten]

Hi,

W-bins are essentially a very large cabinet broken into pieces
for transport. Bass extension essentially depends on mouth area
and so AFAIK 4 cabinets will go an octave lower than 1 cabinet.
That is the mouth area of one cabinet is too small, the total
design only makes sense considering 3 or 4 together.

The efficiency benefits are there higher up in the range, but if your
after as much low bass as possible nothing beats a vented cabinet
for low bass output and efficiency for a given cabinet size.

But they are not long throw. The Beta15's Qts is also too high
for effective reflexing for bass extension, though venting can be
used for powerhandling.

TBH the beta15 is not an ideal PA driver, you can do much with it
except put it in a sealed cabinet, though whether it can work in
a horn loaded cabinet I've no idea.

/sreten.

[sreten]

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe

.........and the Mid/Top are already built for medium/long throw.........
Thanks. Joe.

Hi,

Which means you will also need short throw mid/tops for frontal coverage.

/sreten.

[electroaudio]

I am in the same game as you with PA .
And i have found out that it is much easier to fill a box of given size with a larger horn if there is only one pathway instead of two.
I currently have wbins that is much bigger than your example, but my next design will not be wbins.

One design i have been looking at is this, which seems very promising.
http://www.egbeck.de/15bhorn0.htm

Also, i have never managed to simulate a promising horn in hornresp with anyone of the eminence alpha,beta,delta series.
Maybe you should try to find something like a used EVm15 instead, they may even be cheaper.

[SmokeyJoe]

Right, I know the Beta 15's aren't ideal, but i'm on a budget and because i've already got them i should really use them. I could try and sell the AC Euro speakers on eBay. There just a basic 15" Bass/Mid with Piezo Horn design. But there nearly new condition, i paid £295 two years ago for the pair.

But assuming i have to use the Beta 15's for my bass cabs and W-Bins are a no-no. Anything horn loaded is a no-no. I've just been on SpeakerPlans.com again and theres hardly any plans for 15" subs, only the HD15 which dosent go low enough for me! Also there designed for use in stacks of at least 6 bins.

I've got the plans for my Mid/Top cabnets (there 1x 10" Mid and 1x 1" Comp Horn). I'm putting Eminence Delta 10's in there because they have a nice EBP (FS/QES) of 188 which is good for horn loading i understand.

So some suggestions on what to build for bass cabs then please.

Thanks, Joe.