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Old 3rd August 2006, 04:45 PM   #1
barfind is offline barfind  Australia
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Default Sub to match 99db mains

Hi folks. I am wanting to built a pair of subs to keep up with my 99db mains. I have been playing around with a Vifa woofer, nice driver nut not enough xmax, a Pioneer 12 sub, again xmax challenged, and some eminence 12's. Athough reasonable results can be had with all these drivers, I am now looking to built 2 subs that do justice to my mains.
In the many enclsoures I made for the drivers I have, I made a 80ltr vented box tuned for 23hz for the Vifa. Now I coulnd't turn up the system very far before I ran out of xmax, It had a effortless-ness to the bass that I have never heard before. It was so musical, and tight, and clean, that the sound has become etched into my brain.

So what I am asking, is for advice to built 2 subs to get to 20hz that will produce bass with a real ease. Not punchy, just relaxed tight clean bass. I have heard it, so I know its out there.
What do you think. Thanks in advance.

Nigel
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Old 3rd August 2006, 06:34 PM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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which eminence drivers?
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Old 3rd August 2006, 08:51 PM   #3
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If you liked the Vifa so much, why not just use enough of them to get the output you want?

Also, did you have a HP filter on it to prevent overdriving below Fb? If not, that could solve your problem.
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Old 4th August 2006, 01:22 PM   #4
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Well I like vifa too but that would be a lot of drivers.

The answer to your dream would take up a lot of real estate, easiest option would be what is called an infinite baffle box ( which is a very, very big sealed box) with a low end eq boost. Only way to make it smaller would be an isobaric design, the second driver and very small coupling space allows a box to be 1/2 the size. If you could build the speaker boxs flush into the listening room wall (only if the wall is extremly strong, think brick or concrete, acoustic grade gyprock only, who needed the windows anyway!) It would sound even more natural.

A 10 ft sonotube tube, the same diameter as the driver 12" 15" or 18"
also has a very low bass that you can feel from 22hz

JBL EV Emenience Altec & P. Audio all have speakers in there range that are close to 99db per watt efficent.

Our hearing is not very efficent down there, so more tends to be nice.
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Old 4th August 2006, 02:51 PM   #5
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Nigel,

What are your 99db mains to which you are trying to match stereo subs? What's your expected XO point? How much power do you want to invest?
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Old 4th August 2006, 03:50 PM   #6
badman is offline badman  United States
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Default Are you sure you need subs?

It might be worth getting a big, low distortion pro driver, to 'voicematch' to the high-eff mains- something like http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...umber=290-579, one per side, in a sealed, EQ'd box. That'd give you PLENTY!
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Old 5th August 2006, 12:26 AM   #7
barfind is offline barfind  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cameron Glendin
Well I like vifa too but that would be a lot of drivers.

The answer to your dream would take up a lot of real estate, easiest option would be what is called an infinite baffle box ( which is a very, very big sealed box) with a low end eq boost. Only way to make it smaller would be an isobaric design, the second driver and very small coupling space allows a box to be 1/2 the size. If you could build the speaker boxs flush into the listening room wall (only if the wall is extremly strong, think brick or concrete, acoustic grade gyprock only, who needed the windows anyway!) It would sound even more natural.

A 10 ft sonotube tube, the same diameter as the driver 12" 15" or 18"
also has a very low bass that you can feel from 22hz

JBL EV Emenience Altec & P. Audio all have speakers in there range that are close to 99db per watt efficent.

Our hearing is not very efficent down there, so more tends to be nice.
Hi Cameron, Thanks. I have plenty of deep bass options, and I am currently trying the vifa's in compound isobarik, it gets down easy. But what I am trying to get is a feeling that the bass is easy. It is hard to explain, and it may be something with my ears, but I want effortless bass, still clean ,and deep, but musical. Multipile drivers may be the only way to go to get the effieincy up enough, and that would solve the Xmax problem. I dont care how big it is, It can be floor to cieling if I want it to be. Maybe 6 or 8 10's or 12's may be the trick.


Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR
Nigel,

What are your 99db mains to which you are trying to match stereo subs? What's your expected XO point? How much power do you want to invest?
Hi John. I am trying to match a pair of line arrays I have made. I want to cross them over about 100hz or so. I have 350w per channel.
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Old 5th August 2006, 01:07 AM   #8
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You'll want array behavior in the bass region as well, so 4 or more woofers per side arrayed floor to ceiling. Use whatever will easily get you the max spl you're looking for. Lots of Sd will make it sound effortless, so I'd say go with the 15's of your choice.
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Old 6th August 2006, 07:39 AM   #9
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Hi Barfind, one thing you may have missed is that I did not suggest bass reflex. I too am a bit fussy about the quality of bass. I have built several complete high end cinema speaker systems here in sydney using 99db up to 106 per watt components.

I sugest that you use an industral grade 18" loudspeakers, prices start from $250 in a 3 metre long piece of sonotube $120 that is filled with fiberglass bats $60. I see that there is something similar in the projects pages, I recently installed one and only 1, similar in a 250 seat cinema in Avalon (screen 2) so if you want to hear what the bass difference sounds like, it would be quite a hike!

I also built a 12" home version using a 92db car speaker that I use with my vifa main speakers ( tapered pipe box design from the 1940s)

As for cinemas I have also built both sealed box (Q of 0.5- 0.6) and bass reflex for sub bass purposes and would say that to me the sealed box is more natural sounding but obviously less efficent.

I recently helped a friend install a totally active 4 way horn loaded cinema speaker system, front loaded horn designs, now that has an effortless sub bass and all the seats shake. much more efficent than than your 99db mains, but a bitch to build and get right. (Thats at the Chauvel cinema in Paddington. Sydney)
He also lives in Newcastle


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Old 6th August 2006, 08:46 AM   #10
barfind is offline barfind  Australia
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Hi Cameron, Thanks for the thoughts. I am a Joiner, with my own joinery shop, so nothing would be to hard to build. I have built 5 different subs this week, and I am building 2 more on Monday. My next one is to use 8x94db 12's in a compound isobarik alignment,4 drivers per box. Thses have an FS of 22.6HZ, and 11mm Xmax. This should put me somewhere the sensitivity I need. If I am not happy still I will PM you and get some more info.Thanks
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